[Hope1]

I’m back again after several months, our son has been to GM and been out for well over a year. At first things went well, but he has had well over five relapses, some worse than others. He still lives at home with us, his girlfriend has stuck with him. He has hurt us ( mum and dad) and his girlfriend during the process. We have stuck by him giving him support. He has even managed to get a good job with prospects. His last relapse was on pay day last month. We had an arrangement where all his salary would go into my bank and I would give him money on request. Despite agreeing to this ( because he felt that when he had large amounts of accessible cash he was tempted)’ he changed the arrangement and had the money put int his account. Bear in mind he has debt to pay off , he only went ang gambled a whole months salary in three days. He now has no money for the rest of the month, but seems to think we will pay his expenses. He said he wouldn’t be able to keep his job if he can’t get there. We have bought him a season train ticket to get to work, and provided sandwich making stuff to us for his lunches. Despite this he is still asking for money to go out with his colleagues stating its important for his self esteem. We have explained that he needs to take responsibility for his actions and that it’s not for us to work things out for him. Although he’s 26′ he’s behaving in an adolescent way, and I think he is manipulating us. My husband
feels bad because our son is not communicating with him , our son won’t talk things through with us. It’s so wearisome keep going back to the start, wondering what the next shock will be. I’m hoping velvet reads this, as you have been so helpful to me in the past. Very weary

[velvet]

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Hello Hope

Thanks for starting a thread in the Gambling Therapy friends and family forum. This forum will provide you with warmth and understanding from your peers.

Feel free to use the friends and family group, you?ll find the times for these if you click on the ?Group times? box on our Home page. Now that you have introduced yourself you?ll find that many of the people you meet here have already read your initial introduction and they?ll welcome you in like an old friend ??

If you?re the friend or family member of someone who is either in, or has been through, the GMA residential programme please take extra care to make sure that nothing you say in groups, or on our forums, inadvertently identifies that person. Even if your loved one isn?t connected with GMA, please don?t identify them either directly or indirectly just in case they decide to use the site themselves.

You?ll find a lot of advice on this site, some of which you?ll follow, some you won?t…but that?s ok because only you fully understand your
situation and what?s best for you and the people you love. So, take the support you need and leave the advice you don?t because it all comes from a caring, nurturing place ??

We look forward to hearing all about you!

Take care

The Gambling Therapy Team

PS: Let me just remind you to take a look at our

privacy policy and terms and conditions so you know how it all works!

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I read you post and I want you to know that I have understood everything you have said and I will reply but I want to give your concerns a lot of thought first.
I have a funeral to attend tomorrow at lunch time but between that and the evening group I write to you.
Just quick initial thoughts: – Gaining knowledge of the addiction to gamble gives F&F control over it and the same applies to CGs but of course knowledge can be abused. You write ‘Despite this he is still asking for money to go out with his colleagues stating its important for his self esteem’ which is manipulation and I can imagine how you feel when you hear it. Stand united with your husband on this, these words are carefully designed to make any parent suffer – he knows you would never want him to lack self-esteem. Giving him money, however, to go out and socialize will not give him self-esteem, controlling his behaviour will do that,
Please tell your husband not to feel bad that his son is choosing to not communicate with him, it isn’t his fault. Your son is being divisive and knows what he is doing.
It is time to take the gloves off – I will write to you tomorrow but in the meantime please know you are not alone.
V

[Hope1]

Thank you velvet, I am hoping ,to join the group tomorrow. I hope you manage to get through your difficult day tomorrow. I look forward to your words which have helped me so much in the past, but the thing is I was hoping I didn’t need to seek help again. I just feel there is no end in site, and despite learning all the coping strategies, he is not using them,so is it he doesn’t want to move on? I so look forward to hearing from you

[velvet]

Dear Hope
I hope you do get into the group tonight; it would be good to talk in real time when it is easier to be completely frank.
Unfortunately although the GM programme is fantastic and works for so many there will always be some that just do not listen either because they don’t want to do so or they are not ready yet.
I suspect there are a lot of egg-shells being walked on in your home which isn’t good for you or your husband and doesn’t help your son either. I assume that you are both very frightened by the way events have turned out but your son is not frightened, he is allowing his addiction to control him and distance him from responsibility. I would imagine you are talking over and over again about ways to help you son whereas he appears to be only concerned with no 1, oblivious to your concerns because they don’t suit him and not bothering about how to help himself
I believe the way forward for you is to be selfish about yourselves which I know will not come naturally but the alternative is that you keep putting his interests first while his addiction flourishes.
Your son can contact the GMA – they don’t wash their hands of residents when the programme is over – they want them to live gamble-free lives and to have self-esteem. In my opinion, I think you should tell him that there is no more money available. I understand why you want to provide with enough food to sustain him but cash when he is active is an absolute ‘no’ whatever the reason given.
I don’t think you will have gone back to the start; you are so much more aware now. I agree, wholeheartedly, that it is dreadful that you are in this position again but your son can get himself together more quickly than before because he has the tools, he has support from GMA, the GT Helpline, our CG groups and a terrific mum and dad who want to support him in the right way.
You are both stronger than your son’s addiction; you do not have to be controlled by it. Talk to each other and plan your defence and strategy so that you are united and he can see your unity, his addiction will do far more damage if it sees a chink in the armour or a division in the ranks.
Your husband may feel he is not protecting his wife when he should be defending her from being hurt. Your son may feel inadequate compared to his father. You may feel you have to defend the son, the child, in his father’s eyes. I am not saying that any of these relate to you but they are some of the things that cause families to act in a certain way and allow the addiction space to grow. I believe that unity is paramount – your son’s addiction needs to see a barrier so strong he cannot break it down.
This is not a time for either of you to feel bad; this is a time for you to enjoy your lives. You know I can’t tell you what to do and there is no crystal ball to tell me how long your son will hang on to his addiction but what I do know is that the only word the addiction should hear from you is ’no’.
Finally never give up hope – I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t know that your son can control his addiction.
I hope we get to speak later
V

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I hear you are trying to get in the group but for reason can’t connect.
The only time I have heard of people not connecting before is that they haven’t logged in – I did it once and the green light wouldn’t come on

V

[Hope1]

Thank you so much Velvet. Your words give me strength, they shine light on a dArk path, it’s like looking at the moon and the stars, so thank you. I so love my son, I know he can be a wonderful person but when he keeps losing his way it makes me feel so low. My husband has been in touch through this forum, we are both close and share , so I know he will find this helpful, because he has been the one to give him money to ‘join in at work’ I know my husband will take what you say on board. I feel stronger to ensure a barrier is in place from our sons addiction, and I know me and my husband will be united. Your words have been a great help, I know I feel I can move forward . So sorry I couldn’t log on to the live chat, I’m going to go to the help line to make sure I’m sorted for next week. I have just had a brief word with our son, who still fails to communicate, he just goes to work then goes to his room. How can someone so intelligent not see what he is doing to himself and those who love him? I am remembering this word, “ No “ to addiction. I know I sound strong, but I m not, I feel a piece of my heart is broken. My lovely mum who so loved our son, and sadly died many years ago at the age of 63, would be heartbroken at these circumstances, it’s so hard. Thank you velvet for your ongoing support.

[velvet]

Hi Hope
It is common to feel weak and afraid when fighting the addiction to gamble. To win, the family must seem, in the eyes of the CG, to be the enemy and that is tough for any parent, child, spouse, loved one.
It doesn’t surprise me that your son is intelligent because the addiction to gamble is owned by people in every walk of life. However, it is important to know that he can control his addiction so hang on to that belief when everything seems hopeless.
You do sound strong and that s what matters – I know you are stronger than you feel.
V

[Hope1]

The subject title doesn’t really convey what I am trying to say. Velvet, I am so appreciative of the hope you give me, and you really help me in my strategies. You are so articulate and so realistic, and informative, and amazing, I say this with such honesty. I guess you have so
Much experience of the problems of CG. You seem to have had a positive experience of having a loved one staying in recovery. The thing is, that on looking through the site there is so much of hopelessness , relapses etc. I am really struggling. Yes I get the being strong bit, the fo using of getting on with our life, but I see my son just going down this dead end with no future. I suppose I have to cut off if this is the route he takes, but my heart is breaking. I know he has no future if he continues to support his gambling demon. I am just so tired. We have a lovely family, with the ups and downs, but it would be nice to reap the rewards of Positive liFe experiences which I believe we have given to our kids. Obviously something has gone wrong somewhere. Tonight I have tried to talk with him, he just shuts off and goes to his room. I am being strong and will not give him any money. He has his train card paid for a month, food and a roof, he just needs to go to work. Where is this going to go? He can’t live with us forever with this set up, what. To do??????? Ahhhhhhhhhhh

[Hope1]

No communication coming from my son/ CG. So should I just leave him to it. I have thought about writing him a letter of where I think he is, and letting him know where we are ? What do you think ? Also, I can’t see or want him to have a future with his girlfriend. Can you imagine responsibilities, potential children with the parent being a CG

[Hope1]

I’m just back in from work, this is what happens, as soon as my mind is free from work I switch straight on to our son. I noticed in some of your support to others velvet, that you had 25 years of struggle with your son, we have had eight, I don’t think I can face the prospect of another 17 years!!!! I am wondering, do Gordon moody l
Do short term courses for a week or so for CG that are struggling? When our son went there I was so relieved, he seemed to really take everything on board. When he came home I felt I had my son back again. It was beautiful. I am sticking to the strategies and not given him any money. He’s going to work which is good. I really love him, but I don’t like him when the gambling monster is his friend, he is allowing his life to be ruined. At the moment he is being polite and saying thanks for his lunches and meals ( the only communication he engages us in) . It’s usually now that I say, “ come on, we can work this out , you can do it ..“. And start being the drive for him. This is where I think I have grown, cos it’s not up to me to be the drive, I can’t do it for him, I have got to stop trying to fix things and make everything good. But the big one for me is WHY. Why has this happened to him, what did we do wrong, why did we miss signs, were we too pre occupied. Our daughter feels he changed followingf the death of his grandmother which she feels affected him badly. He was the youngest, the baby and she doted on him. ( she did that with all three of our children). We know he has found it difficult to cope with difficult things like that, and when his dad was ill on holiday. So much, so much. I just wish everything was good for him. The thing is, I don’t think I can ever fully trust him again. At least this time there were no suicide threats, no disappearing and having to report him missing. The job appears to have grounded him. My husband has counselling services available through work, they asked a lot about our son, and mentioned autism, but I just think it’s another label, it’s the gambling that is the problem, but I do ask why are some people really susceptible to this addiction. Ah well, better go and put a wash on or something. Thanks so much for just being there hope xxx

[velvet]

Dear Hope
I have just read your last post having written a long one to answer your penultimate post. Most of what I have written therefore, doesn’t deal with your latest post which seems a little more upbeat.
The problem with the site is that recent posts are the ones that are more likely to offer little or no hope because those who have found their way, either with or without their CG, move on and the last thing they want to do is dwell in this site.
Moving with or without their CG is, of course, more to do with spouses and partners whereas parents and children do not have those outcomes as options – whatever happens your son will always be your son just as a child will always have that parent no matter what or how good the relationship is.
One of the things I learned when my CG eventually was able to talk to me reasonably was that a CG will always find a way; we worry about where they will sleep and what they will eat but they never worry and somehow they survive. Your son is 26 and he will have a future whether you worry yourself into the ground or not. What his future will be is down to him but I fully appreciate you want to help him get a better future.
I know I cannot tell you what to do but writing to an active CG is a bit of a mine-field. I wrote such a letter full of hope and love and no recrimination. When my CG eventually entered recovery he told me that my letter had been read an hundred ways, and each time he saw it as judgemental. He told me he screwed it up, threw it away, retrieved it, read it, screwed it up etc. He said that after a while it was wet and torn and illegible but he could still decipher that I was disappointed. He believed himself to be a disappointment and worthless so that is what he perceived my words to mean. However bearing all this in mind, if you still want to write to your son please keep the message very, very short.
I believe you have a lovely family but sadly your son feels outside and it is absolutely nothing to do with anything you have done. When he gambled something changed within him. Neither you nor he, had any control over what happened; you could not have foreseen it and you could not have stopped it. Invisibly it built within him and it wasn’t until it altered his behaviour that anybody would have noticed anything untoward, by which time his addiction would have been in control of him.
I believe that the life experiences you have given to your son will make a difference in the end. I have now seen that a lot of what surrounded my CG when he was growing up is now visible in his life, not only is he using the skills he was given in GMA to control his addiction, he has added to them and is creating similar experiences such as the ones you have shared with your family.
I am fully aware of how desperate you feel and what you want. I suggest your son doesn’t get too many comforts in your home but I do believe it is best not to be confrontational because it doesn’t work and you get hurt.
Positives are hard when your son is behaving like an adolescent but they are always better than negatives. When he wants for something he will talk and maybe you could then tell him how good life was when he was controlling his addiction. His gamble-free time does count so let him know it was a happy time for you all, remind him of a time you laughed or you did something that you enjoyed – concentrate on those gamble-free months, even if they were not perfect, let him know what they meant to you and tell him that you know they can come again only better – it is probably best not to mention what he has to do to get the better times – he already knows.
I hope some of this helps. I really hope to be able to talk to you in the private group on Tuesday but until then keep posting and make sure you do something today that makes you happy, give your mind time every day when your son and his problems are not swirling around.
If someone had said to me after 8 years that I had another 17 years to go, the men in the little white coats would have carted me off, I would not have coped. I didn’t know what it was that was causing all the damage and I was side-tracked by counsellors and doctors who didn’t understand so I couldn’t protect myself or make informed decisions. When I knew after 23 years that it was gambling, I was able to start putting strategies into place that formed the basis or my recovery without it being dependent on him.
Counsellors who have not dealt with CGing can often come up with labels such as autism, bi-polar, etc, but for me they can be distractions that take the focus off the real problem. If your son wants more support than it should be dedicated addiction counselling.
Your son can certainly approach GMA and ask them for further support, all such decisions are obviously down to them. We have an ex-residents group on Monday evenings where he would be most welcome. GMA and GT do not give up lightly so never lost hope.

V

[Hope1]

I have just had a conversation with our son and it didn’t go that well. I really know he’s not right because whilst he is being polite, if I raise any issues his voice gets raised and he becomes defensive and loud, something he talked about after re hab. I asked him if he had any strategies in place for when he gets paid this month, as he has told me this is a danger zone when he has access to a lot of money. He told me he had but wouldn’t tell me what they were. I told him if his g/ f asked me a direct question I would answer truthfully as it was wrong for him to control whether I spoke to her or not. He told me it was none of my business and I should just say speak to him. He said I was baiting him and realing him in and not listening, all of which I really believe to be untrue. I told him me and his dad needed our life to be more settled and whilst he lived with us he needed to be respectful and
that and that we can’t be on edge all the time about what’s coming next. I didn’t like his behaviour tonight and told him he wanted everything on his own terms. For example when g/ f is here he puts the happy act on. I told him tonight that if he didn’t want to communicate with us so be it, we will really leave it with him, but that I was not convinced he was in control of his addiction. He seems so angry when we try to ask him how things are. He said just because I was getting support I think I know it all. I really don’t like his tone or behaviour, I wish he would move out I have had enough of his lies and deceipt, I don’t like him at the moment, though I know I should say I don’t like his behaviour but I feel I don’t like him tonight. I have reminded him of his commitments with money, but after tonight, I really need to cut off from him. I told him that he will never do this without support. He tells me his in touch with previous GMA residents but not via the therapy lines. I can’t believe he is not in touch with the counsellors. Tonight I feel exasperated. He’s all take and no give. Well pay day is due next week, let’s see. Thanks velvet for the chat on Tuesday session. It was really helpful. I need to stop using my energy to make things right.

[Hope1]

Oh and he says I think I know it all because I am having a bit of help. I told him I didn’t know it all, that’s why I needed help and that I was listening to the guidance fro GMA therapy line. He just seems full of himself but not in a good way. The only time we see him being nice is when the g/ f is g
Here. I really am leaving it to him. I have sent a text to him saying he needs to be respectful of me and his dad .

[Hope1]

We have spoken about our sons stage and where he is after the GMA rehab, you mentioned that rehab works for some, but others are not ready. I definitely think he took the academic reasoning and the verbal stuff, rationales etc on board, but I have started thinking did his heart, soul and inner self really embrace it

[velvet]

Dear Hope
I can hear your son’s active addiction in everything you have written and I think you are probably right that he has heard the words of recovery but he doesn’t want to take heed of the message – yet.
I’m not going to write anymore tonight as it is late and your post deserves to have a lot of thought given to it but I will write again tomorrow.
Velvet

[worriedmama]

Firstly so sorry that both you and your son are dealing with a gambling addiction.

My 27 year old son has been a compulsive gambler since he was about 18. I’m in Canada and we don’t have anything like the GM program so I had him to 3 different therapists trying to find something to „fix“ this. Problem was he wasn’t „all in“ so to speak. I know he didn’t want the problems that gambling brought but he also didn’t believe that this was a problem that he had no power over. He tried for years to do it his way and it never worked

Like you we have been to hell and back. Lying , stealing, threats and attempts of suicide, emotional blackmail beyond anything I thought possible and one day I just cracked and hit the proverbial rock bottom.

I went to a Gam Anon meeting and started looking after myself and the rest of my family. A compulsive gambler has the uncanny ability to make everything about them. They can have your head spinning in no time and have you apologizing for any and everything.

Nobody can get you to your rock bottom just as your son has to hit his own. When you are ready you will start making boundaries of what YOU will and will not allow both in your home and to you as a person. It’s not easy and it’s a constant work in progress but everybody deserves respect in their own home.

Once you get into the practice of not being drawn into or engaging with the nonsense it’s amazing how quickly it subsides.
Your sons recovery from addiction lies completely in his hands but how you react and the boundaries you set lie completely in yours.

It’s all so very frustrating and heartbreaking but try not to let yourself go down the rabbit hole with them!

Take care of yourself:)

[Hope1]

Thanks worried mama, your words are what I needed to hear. I think I have been working along these lines to get it right for me and my husband. You words reinforce what I need to do in terms of boundaries. Thanks so much. I hope all is well with your situation.

[Hope1]

I am making headway in terms of protectin me, my husband and our family, but this morning I woke up sad , I feel as though I have lost my son

[worriedmama]

You haven’t lost your son…he is in there somewhere…unfortunately it’s up to him when he reappears:(.

It’s totally normal to feel sad cuz it is a sad situation. Try and force yourself to put thoughts of your son and all his baggage away for a while… Time away from the addiction will give you perspective and do you a world of good! Not easy I know but with practice you will get better at it! ??

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I’m so please that WM has posted to you, it is so good to hear more than one voice saying the same thing, which is the beauty of Gamanon too. This forum is always availalble and you can post anytime and be heard which is one of our best features – Gamanon is usually once a week and it can be frustrating to wait for the meetings but they can be so worthwhile because you can touch a hand or exchange a smile. Obviously they are made up of different people and one group might not be a good as, or maybe better, than another but I found my salvation in Gamanon. Take all the support you can. Nobody will understand where you are at the moment any better.
What I liked most about WM’s post is her strength but also her acceptance. This is a terrible addiction but thinking that it is possible to sort it all out in a twinkling of an eye doesn’t help. Accepting that this probably will take a long time is better than having expectations crushed over and over by another disappointment – (and I am really not suggesting a further 13 years!)
I am sure you have read my ‘addiction beast’ analogy before but just in case you haven’t , here it is again. Whenever you approach your son to try and talk to him it will probably always be the wrong time. He is too tired, his girlfriend is waiting; he’s just come in from work or not washed his hands or he has somewhere else to be – anything to keep you waiting will his addiction sharpens its claws and prepares for battle because it knows you want to talk and he doesn’t want to listen. His addiction lies in the corner of the room, like a slavering beast, watching and waiting for you to make a mistake and question its existence. It feigns sleep, boredom, disinterest because it wants to be ready for anything you say – any issues that you want to raise. When you asked about any strategies he had in place for when he gets paid the beast was immediately between you and spitting – ‘how dare you question me – back off or you will be the worse for wear’.
Of course you were not baiting him; you were trying to speak to him logically and with reason but his addiction recognise neither of these.
You know I can’t tell you what to do but I want you to think about what you want. What will you do when he squanders all his pay next week because it seems to me he will almost definitely do just that? Hoping for something different is not good for you, working out what matters to you and what you want is positive action for you. Is he paying you for his keep? If not and there is nothing forthcoming, what do you intend to do?
Suicide threats are terrifying Hope – they are meant to be. Standing up to someone you love who is threatening you with such an action is unbelievable difficult but what I hear in your posts is someone who can threaten his mother but demand his girlfriend is protected – to her he is Mr Nice Guy, so you know Mr Nice Guy exists. He wants enablement from both of you but he believes he can hurt you at will and you will buckle. He is soft soaping his girlfriend into giving him goodness knows what, but sadly you cannot save her.
My CG said to me that his addiction would have taken me all the way down with him which is why looking after yourself is the most important thing you can do.
Quoting from WM again “Once you get into the practice of not being drawn into or engaging with the nonsense it’s amazing how quickly it subsides.

Your sons recovery from addiction lies completely in his hands but how you react and the boundaries you set lie completely in yours”.
Whatever you decide Hope there will be no judgment here but please keep posting – I believe you need support and somewhere to vent.
I am away for the weekend but my thought s are with you. It is ok to say you don’t like your son, it is understandable to think you never will but I’m here to say your son has lost his way but he is still there and he can and will change – and WM is here to say she is still searching too but is not giving up.
Velvet

[Hope1]

Well we have had a better weekend, my son has been more sociable, and quite lovely. He’s reluctant to talk about his problem, but he has been part of the family and that’s lovely. I want him to understand how much we love him, we don’t judge him, but we want him to squash the gambling monster. I’m sure he does not feel good about himself at times, but there’s one thing bothering me and that is his reluctance to talk, he told me that this was important to talk when he came out of re hab

. Well pay day is tomorrow so let’s see what this next month holds. But like you said, I have to look after me and that what I’m trying to do. Hope

[velvet]

Hi Hope
A good weekend goes a long way to helping you feel better and also hopefully to helping your son to see how it could be if he applied himself to his recovery again.
I know what you want him to understand but it depends on what his addiction is doing to his mind whether or not he is capable of such understanding at the moment.
Whatever happens tomorrow and in the coming month, please look after yourself first. I am hoping that this weekend will have given him an incentive to pick up his tools but of course it could be the lull before the storm, the expectation of pay day giving him the ability to gamble.
My thoughts are with you
Speak soon
Velvet

[Hope1]

There are two things that I identified with in your post velvet. One is your second sentence – it depends on what the addiction is doing to his mind, and something in your last sentence – the lull before the storm, of which we have experienced so many. I have been thinking of the lull before the storm and the sinking feeling I have just thinking about it. He has a commitment to pay some money to a friend from this wage. Already I have asked him for the payment, and already he said he will do it over the weekend, even though he got paid today. Not really happy with that.
I told my son I was getting help from you and this site, he said he could easily get on this and that it wouldn’t be difficult for him to identify my posts. I said I was happy for him to do so, cos it may do him good to see my thoughts and feelings. I know he is a lovely sensitive person, but sometimes I am concerned about his mindset in some of the things he says, I don’t always recognise him as my son. Well, I really hope he pays this important debt.
We drew a line under previous debt following his rehab, but I have told him that the stuff he owes since this needs to be paid Back. I told him he needed to pay external debts first, and after this just give us a schedule of payments. He still lives at home rent/ expense free. I really think he needs more residential rehab input, we are trying to focus and get on. I have to say though , I have felt extremely low these past few days, to the extent I a
May need to see my gp . I just work 2 and a half days a week at the mo, I love what I do, but I have even felt it difficult to get out of bed. One day I just stayed in bed all day. I’m feeling tired. My lovely daughter is so caring, she has tried so much to help her brother, as ha s his bro.
Me and my husband have just booked a hol, so that’s good.
I just don’t know how our sons mind is working.

If we have another trauma, then I really believe he needs major help, I want to believe he will move forward, but I have experienced so many lUlls before the storm.
Help
Hope

[velvet]

Hi Hope
If your son chooses to read your thread then that is his choice – please write for you and you alone. He has been through the GMA programme but you have not had the benefit of that experience. The support he needs is available for him but this forum is a place for your recovery.
I won’t write much tonight as it is late and my bed is calling but I want to say that all CGs can read what is written here and sometimes it must make difficult reading for them but it is very important to remember that this forum is here for F&F, it is a place of safety where you can say the things that worry you without fear of retribution. It is how the addiction to gamble has affected you and nobody else that matters here. If you are strong then you can support your loved one better and this is the place to gain that strength.
I was concerned about mentioning the lull before the storm, especially when you had had a good weekend but I believe it is important to accept that they can still break and that it is therefore essential to have the right protection in place to keep out of the eye of the storm.
It’s great to hear you have booked a holiday – a time for you to get away and put all thoughts of addictive gambling to the back of your mind – I won’t say away because I know that will be almost impossible – I know you know what I mean.
Your son hopefully will use the tools he was given but if he chooses not to do so then he is making his choice. He can more forward or he can stick in the distorted world of gambling a bit longer – it is down to him but please don’t wait for him to make his choice before you take care of yourself. Make it your choice to be happy today.
Goodnight, sleep well
Velvet

[Hope1]

Thanks velvet, I am listening. Well it’s the 2 nd sept he got paid on the last day of Aug, he promised to pay off an important debt when he got paid, so far, nothing forthcoming, says he has to go to the bank to do the transfer, I’m not hopeful. Just feel abused, can’t say anymore. Wish I could report more positives. Even if he does pay this important debt ( not to us). It always seems he is controlling. Fed up

[worriedmama]

Hi Hope
I know this is so hard but try to keep reminding yourself that this is his to deal with. If he chooses to ignore the debt he will have to deal with the consequences.

You have put yourself in a position of feeling responsible for what he does with his funds on payday. I know that feeling… Constantly watching,.. What are they doing, how do they sound, do they „get it“ finally. He will do what he will do and you will drive yourself crazy in the meantime.

I know he is your son and you love him to bits but look at your last 2 sentences… You feel abused and controlled. Hope this is something you can change. You going down with your son is not going to help anybody … Yourself, your husband, your other children or especially your son. Look after yourself and reclaim your life!
None of this is easy ( I have been working on this for 9 years ) but when you can start letting go of the outcome your life will start to become more manageable and happy.

Try to find the little things that bring you happiness that have NOTHING to do with your son today!

[Hope1]

Thank you worried mamma, I hear what you are saying, and I must follow your guidance for my own sanity. I am thinking it may be
appropriate to ask him to find rented accommodation. He just doesn’t play by the rules in our home.
He’s at his girlfriend s today, and I suspect there will be discussions about holidays as she is keen to go away.
Thanks again, I am listening

[Hope1]

Thank you worried mamma, I hear what you are saying, and I must follow your guidance for my own sanity. I am thinking it may be
appropriate to ask him to find rented accommodation. He just doesn’t play by the rules in our home.
He’s at his girlfriend s today, and I suspect there will be discussions about holidays as she is keen to go away.
Thanks again, I am listening

[worriedmama]

It’s your house and he is a young man so I think whatever you and your husband want to do is totally appropriate!

Baby steps Hope…that’s how things will improve:)

[Brummell]

I have just joined mainly to gain advice and support re my son who is gambling
I struggle tackling it with him as he blows
I struggle with the lies
It’s so stressful how best can I deal with this issue

[Hope1]

Yes, and that hurts knowing he’s in a delusional state, knowing he’s not being honest, knowing that he’s probably chasing his losses . All that hard earned money. What a waste, I hope I’m wrong. I’m working on looking after me, I have to leave him to make his own mistakes, only he can do it. It’s just that it’s hard to switch off. What do I do though if he has no money to buy his train ticket for work and he has no money. Last month that’s the one thing we did buy. Thing is to lose his job would not help him at all especially when he is doing well there, it’s the only thing that he seems to be working at. Hope

[Hope1]

Well I’m not in a good place, as my son has been gambling for over 8 years. A good thing would be to start your own thread, there is really good help from velvet.
You need to put more a bout your story, it is a very difficult journey for parents. I am learning that as a parent I have to protect myself and look after myself and not be taken to my sons place of despair. Your son will lie, steal, fabricate stories, become deluded, and no matter how much you know that he is a good person, he is not t he person you know until he has got his gambling under control. Only he can help himself. We need to look after ourselves. What exactly do you need help with. Hope

[worriedmama]

Oh Hope I wish I could give you an answer that wouldn’t hurt. I am by no means an expert in this. As Velvet has said she did all the wrong things for all the right reasons. That’s what moms do.
Perhaps if you say no to train fare he will be forced to ask his gf for the money. I know he doesn’t want her to know but that is not your problem.
Somewhere along this c**p journey it has to hurt or this will never end Hope.

[velvet]

Hi Hope
In my opinion, it would be completely appropriate for your son to find rented accommodation and leave the safety net of his home with you. Be prepared for a tough disengagement, however, I doubt he will willingly give up the place he appears to believe will offer him the sanctuary he wants when the going gets tough. I hope your husband will stand beside you on this.
If your son is actively discussing going on holiday with his girlfriend then you are probably looking at a showdown fairly soon unless she is funding him entirely.
Your son will know that you are reluctant to say ‘no’ to purchasing his train ticket, he knows what store you lay by him doing a job that he is doing well, so he will almost certainly have put concern about the train ticket on the back burner thus giving him the money he should be using for his travel to indulge his addiction. However, he earns the money to buy his ticket and ‘he’ is responsible for buying his ticket, so if he squanders it on his addiction then it is not your fault and it is not your responsibility to pick up the pieces – regardless of whether it endangers his job or not (and yes, I do know how devastating this feels to you).
Of course it is easy for me to talk tough, I appreciate that completely but everything I say to you I had to learn myself and although it was incredibly painful it gave me back my life. I believe that what your son learned in Gordon House is still there within him but he is not bothering to dig deep enough to use it.
I think WMs last paragraph hits the nail on the head ‘Somewhere along this c**p journey it has to hurt or this will never end’. I know this is hurting you but your son appears to be fending off the pain and certainly his girlfriend does not appear to be helping. Controlling his addiction will hurt him but it will ultimately save him. You cannot save his girlfriend, you cannot save your son but you can save you and that, I promise you, is the best thing you can do for your son.
Keep posting

[velvet]

Hi Hope
A PS to my last post:-
When my CG left the project he wasn’t totally in control of his life – that takes time. This is recognised by the GMA because they can only give the tools and hope that they will be used, however, they are always willing to offer support to ex-residents.
When your son makes what appear to be inappropriate demands, such as for his ticket to work when he has gambled the money, instead of telling him what he should, or should not have done etc which only wears you out, gently suggest that he contacts the GMA House that he was in and ask them what they think he should do about getting his ticket or going on holiday. You might possibly imply strongly that you will stand by the advice that he is given. This might sound like passing the buck but I can assure you their understanding is immense and there is nothing they have not heard of before. There is no harm to be done in telling a CG who wants to control his/her addiction that you are struggling too and that you want them to get further support. It is not an admission of weakness but of recognising that the same problem is being faced by you both. If he then seeks to manipulate the situation in the mistaken belief that you are weak then that is the time to batten down the hatches and ride the storm.
I asked my CG to help me when I didn’t know what I should,or should not, be doing. I know he referred back to the House he had been in and he was never turned away.
Velvet

[Hope1]

Velvet, thanks for the Last post. But I feel really worried. No suicide threats, just my husband has been with our son, and gsome of the things he has said to his dad is that he is weary, it’s hard just functioning and carrying on. And a lot of other stuff. My husband feels concerned. He feels our son is depressed. He has said about going to the gp but our son said, ‘what can he do ‘ and to a point, I agree cos there seems to be nothing out there. I am not deflecting from the gambling, cos that is there, but in my heart I feel something is wrong. He g
Has said thing
Has in the past like he doesn’t think his head is wired right and that his brain feels like a jigsaw with a piece missing . In my gut I feel something is wrong and I don’t know how to help. I will find the money for special counselling if this would help., after my husbands analysis of our sons head tonight, I am really in a state of worry . I think the gambling is a big issue, but his mindset is worrying me.. You won’t know, but before all th GM re hab we paid for therapy etc that he didn’t relate to. I just know something is really wrong and I don’t know what to do. To have a message from my son sayin he is tired and weary of life is not good .

[Hope1]

Did your son go back to the house for more re hab? Velvet?

[Hope1]

Another thing he said was that life is a battle and he’s tired of fighting it. When he’s not at work he is just alone in his room. He has many friends, but has. Not been in contact with them, last night he went to his girlfriends, but I think he was struggling to motivate himself to go there. He’s not keeping us in the loop re his money stuff, but says he’s ok. I don’t think he’s deflecting from the gambling, but not talking is not helping him. I know he needs specialised help. Hope

[Hope1]

I keep chech
King for a reply velvet

[i-did-it]

Hi Hope ,
I hope you don’t mind my writing on your thread. I am a mother who has been to hell and back with worry about my son for very different reasons but I do understand sleepless nights, worrying , watching, fearing ,hoping , praying, anxiety and being unable to switch off from it .. At times it feels that my personal happiness is still connected by an uncut umbilical cord to that of my son. Therefore I have empathy for you .
I hope my post will give you hope . I’m not sure why I developed a gambling disorder but I did ( my personal preference is to describe it as a disorder- it makes it smaller than defining myself as a cg etc) – perhaps my mind could no longer cope with the constant worry . However , I am free now, happy and building a very nice life . I had to write and tell you people do recover and get their life back . I hope my story will give you hope . I am happy .
People describe this addiction/ disorder as selfish and yes my behaviour must have seemed very selfish but really I wasn’t a selfish person. I hurt myself as much as anyone else . My biggest emotion was shame followed by guilt. I think gambling disorder must be like OCD. It shouts louder than anything else in Your brain or anything else in your life.

I tried everything and in truth end I got there .
I used a supplement called NAC which has been researched and helps many with gambling disorder .
I took a broad supplement to include as many minerals and vitamins as I could find (expensive but worth it )
I was thinking heal the body and the mind will follow .
I attended online group support
I handed over ( well truthfully it was taken from me ) control of my money to someone else.
I immediately started to treat myself to nice things/ treats despite a lack of funds and I really think this was the most important thing for me . I started to enjoy other things like a meal out or a new necklace and get pleasure from them.
I refused to allow anyone put me down or make me feel small. I had made mistakes but who hasn’t . I guess I forgave myself .

If you asked me what would I advise? I would meet my son at the atm / bank on payday and ask him for the money for the food (every lunch) the train tickets and his lodgings which you provided for the previous month. I would not give him the opportunity to not pay his way ! It wil help u feel Less used and give him some sense of pride that he is paying his wAy. If you feel he won’t turn up at the bank , wait at his work and go to the bank with him!

I would ask him to also pay for the socialising he has done with his friends . You wil probably always be a month behind but u might as well have it as his habit.

If you wish to write to him I would simply write something like I love you and because of that I want u to return to paying your wages into my account because you will feel better when you know you have money behind you. People often say money can’t buy you happiness, but they are only the people who have not experienced life without money !

I would aknowledge that yes life is a battle right now but he will never have to battle alone . he does sound very vulnerable right now so it is important to make him feel needed and valued . Even small comments like it lifts my heart when I hear the door and know it’s you.

I don’t mean to scare you but if you feel he is suicidal it is a good idea to ask him very directly if this is the case .
Then he may need different specialised help.

I would avoid saying anything that make him feel worse right now like saying how this impacts on you etc.

I know you are weary . I know how much of your life this had consumed but I believe your boy will recover. I believe you are his greatest medicine in his recovery and I know you are a caring marvellous mum.

[Hope1]

Really appreciate you taking the time to write. It is definitely a joy to hear that you can beat it. Success stories give me hope, I have listened carefully to everything you said and heeded your words,

Feeling a bit tired and still worried,
Thank you again
Hope

[Hope1]

Really appreciate you taking the time to write. It is definitely a joy to hear that you can beat it. Success stories give me hope, I have listened carefully to everything you said and heeded your words,

Feeling a bit tired and still worried,
Thank you again
Hope

[velvet]

Dear Hope
Sorry I haven’t replied sooner but I have been away for the weekend.
I have not read anything you have written that I did not feel post rehab – or that my CG did not express – even down to the gut feeling that there was more going on than was being recognised.
I can believe your son is weary – he has been into rehab and has been given the tools to control his addiction but he hasn’t, so far, managed to utilise them for very long. He is probably very disappointed and tired of trying.
My CG did not go back into the house for more rehab Hope but he always kept in communication with it – he knew he had not mastered his addiction even though he knew what he had to do to control it.
Unfortunately although the CG works hard at changing and determining to live a better life, it is unsettling after rehab to find the world has not changed at all. All around him the media is still screaming at him to buy things he cannot afford, to believe in the unattainable, to have this car or that holiday. Rehab can teach your son how he should live if he is to control his addiction but it can’t teach those he meets from having expectations of him that weigh too heavily on him; it can’t teach the media to consider those who cannot, for one reason or another, afford the luxuries of life. The battle is tough and your son is in the middle, confused and weary.
I believe that recovery is a lonely slog however much those around the CG love them. This is why I believe that communication with other CGs who have controlled their addiction or talking to those who really understand, such as GMA or the Helpline here is so important.
I know that GMA residents are discouraged from being alone in their rooms – they are not ordered out but when they emerge they are treated to conversation and activity. Is your son eating with you? Maybe when he comes in from work or whenever he is about to disappear into his room you could suggest that you would like his company for a little while but have something ready to talk about, encourage him to tell you about his day and hopefully tell him something that you had done or that you had enjoyed. Questioning a CG is often fraught as it is a reminder of when suspicion lurked behind so many conversations –paranoia is not uncommon. Inviting conversation by requesting his opinion or drawing him in to something that has happened or building on something that he has said is great. Ask him to help you understand rather than telling him what you maybe think he should do – and I am really not suggesting that this is what you do.
It is eggshells and I know you must be weary of walking on them but your son is vulnerable and I am hoping that his weariness is with his addiction, in which case maybe he is ready to have another go at controlling it.
Leave no stone unturned Hope – talk to our Helpline, ask about GMA. The addiction to gamble does cause depression – it thrives on failure. I cannot tell you what to do but I am not of the opinion that a GP or pills are the answer.
His brain isn’t wired wrongly, it is just wired differently, he has to work at seeing things the way other people do – but he can be understood and the support is there for him. He can use this experience to live a better life. Maybe he didn’t dig deep enough when he had the chance – maybe he could be encouraged to try again.
I hope you will join me again tomorrow evening but until then keep posting and I will stoke the little grey cells.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Again Hope
As a postscript to my previous post – it wasn’t until my CG was weary of his life that he summoned the determination to really do something about it.
V

[Hope1]

I will be joining you on the session. Hope

[i-did-it]

Hi Hope , I have training in the area of suicide prevention so I couldn’t ignore your post . I should also have said if you feel your son is very vulnerable please see your GP. Praying for you .

[Hope1]

My son is off work until tues next week. He is being
G respectful and helpful. But not communicative. I have been non confrontational and said I feel he has been gambling and has no money. But how can we support you to move in the right direction. I know his biggest block at the moment is not talking and getting it out in the open.
it is so complex. So hard Hope. Thanks velvet for all your help in the live chat.

[Hope1]

Sometimes I think it would be helpful for my son to read my thread . What do you think

[velvet]

Hi Hope
When I first came on to this site I was under the impression that my CG was writing in My Journal and I made up my mind that I would never read anything he had written as his recovery was the most important thing to me and I believed (and still do) that if he needs to talk to his peers then that is him protecting his recovery.
What I eventually become aware of (mainly because he corrected me one day on something I had written) was that my CG was reading my thread. Fortunately for me he was able to talk to me about his concern because by then we were already communicating quite well – I am concerned that your son might feel he had nobody to talk to if he was unhappy with something he read on your thread. My CG correcting me was an important step forward because he was trusting me not to start raking over old ground or coming out with comments that didn’t help. He knew he could correct me which was new behaviour for him because before rehab he would have gone to ground and festered until he gambled. Listening is more important than talking to a CG, post rehab, because we can say things that trigger the wrong reactions without knowing we are doing it
I am also concerned that it could mean that your support was compromised – maybe you would you start subconsciously writing to him in your posts rather than putting yourself first. You need your support so that you can support him.
If he is gambling and is not prepared to talk to you when you tell him what you are feeling, then maybe it is time to try something different. Perhaps it would be better if you said something like – I am here for you when you are ready to talk – and leave it at that.
Try and enjoy his company without the gambling always in the conversation because probably the time to talk is coming if he hasn’t got his train ticket and needs money.
Keep posting and I will keep thinking
V

[i-did-it]

Hi Hope, I feel Velvet makes a really good point . The support should be for you on your own thread. When this is compromised it will No longer fulfil its purpose for you. You start to write knowing others are reading and analysing your every word.
I still try to read everyday about gambling . I found these stories . You Might find them encouraging .
Maybe your son would like to read them.. For me buying new things was a huge motivator similar to the lady in one of the links , but maybe that’s a „girl“ thing.
https://behappytips.com/quit-gambling-addiction-cold-turkey/

https://m.cambridge-news.co.uk/quit-gambling-got-life/story-22751348-detail/story.html

[Hope1]

Well, didn’t take long. He’s back at work tomorrow, he has no money for train or haircut and I know he has sold his laptop. None of this will he admit. Doesn’t get paid until the end of September, so what a life he is leading until then. He has been up and down mood wise what to do, feeling exasperated . Hope

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I am sure you will have said to him in the past that this is the last time you will buy his ticket and your words have been water off a duck’s back because he ‘believes’ you don’t mean it.
Is he asking for you to buy his ticket and if so, what reason is he giving that he has no money to buy it?
V

[Hope1]

He’s asked for money for a haircut. He says he has money for the train tomorrow, but he usually leaves it until the last minute. His reason for having no money is that he says he’s been paying his debts off. I asked him if he could gives an idea of his arrangements, as it seems silly to leave himself without money, but of course he won’t. I asked him where his laptop was, he said it was upstairs, I asked him to show me, he didn’t. I told him he was deluded and just lying to himself. It makes me feel so weary . I was better than usual, cos in the past it would have been confrontational, but no point in wasting my energy. I know he’s got rid of the laptop, and so does he.
Hope

[velvet]

Hi Hope
Your son learned in GMA to provide receipts for things he had bought to prove that he had in fact used the money to buy the goods for which it was intended. He therefore knows that it is acceptable to provide proof to you as to why he cannot afford a haircut. You know I cannot tell you what to do but if it was me I would not have the cash available for a haircut because hair grows without causing any threat to life – it just means there will just be a bit more to cut by the next payday.
Your son is treating your money as though you have a bottomless pit of cash available for him but if you imagine this continuing for years your finances could well become seriously affected. I suggest you begin to think how you would feel if this happened – you wouldn’t be able to hand over money to him and you would have to say ‘no’.
I’m afraid that telling him he is deluded isn’t making him weary – words don’t affect him – you are struggling far more with this than he is.
He says he has the money for his train so carry on with what you want to do tomorrow – I suggest perhaps you are not accessible to him at the time he leaves for work.
I hope to ‘see’ you tomorrow evening where we can speak plainly.
Velvet

[Hope1]

Thank you velvet
Your words really do help me. I did not give him the money for the haircut, whereas I may have done so in the past.
He has gone to work today and did not ask for money, though he asked his sister for a lift as she works that way on. She knows not to give him money and she is strong.
You are right about the money, we have always spent on the kids and put them first be as we are trying to think about slowing down, we know we will not have the money when we finish work as our pensions are not as good as we anticipated.
I just said to my daughter last night that I feel weary, still looking after our 26 year old. Sometimes I just feel like packing up and moving somewhere peaceful.
I was quite low yesterday. I took a day off to gather myself and get myself focused. My husband is not his usual perky self, and I think things are getting to him.
Well I’m off to work now ( I work 3 days a week, luckily doing something I enjoy). Even though I enjoy, when I feel like this I feel tired and could just stay in bed all day, but that won’t help.
If only he could sort himself, but at the moment it feels like it’s going on forever.
In fact when he gets paid at the end of the month, will he do the same again, leave himself with no money, no life, so going out, no money for anything. What a stupid way to live. No happiness. I will be there tonight velvet.
Hope, and thanks once again

[velvet]

Hi Hope
When you see him tonight don’t mention money but ask him about his day. If he bangs on about not having any funds then I suggest you just smile and say that it is not your problem and carry on busying yourself – once you get involved in a discussion on money it is incredibly difficult not to be manipulated.
It is not set in stone that he will do the same at the end of the month – one day I truly believe he will launch into a decent recovery – the sooner that he is not assisted financially the sooner he will have to change his ways.
In my opinion fathers feel differently from mothers when their sons are addicted to gambling. I think they struggle with unnecessary guilt thinking perhaps they should have protected their wives better (we are the weaker sex after all!). They often doubt their input into the child’s upbringing thinking that maybe if they had done this or that it would have been different – and of course they miss the father/son relationship that they hoped for. No amount of ‘maybes’ ‘what ifs’, ‘if onlys’ would have made a scrap of difference however. Unfortunately it is only in a true recovery that CGs are able to appreciate those around them and hopefully when you son reaches that point he will be able to reassure you that there was nothing that you did that triggered his addiction.
I suggest you set side time with your husband when you do something that pleases you both and doesn’t remotely include gambling or even the ‘g’ word.
I am glad we will ‘speak’ later
Velvet

[Hope1]

Hi velvet, sorry I missed the session. My daughter made me an unexpected invite to go to the cinema and for a pizza. It was really good to switch off. ( Bridget Jones) !!!!
I’m staying strong about the money issue. He’s not asked yet for train fare but he has ten days before pay day. Maybe asking for the haircut money was him testing me?
I missed the live session as I find it so helpful.
Hope

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I’m sorry you missed it too but I’m not surprised you chose a pizza and Bridget Jones – I would have done the same and you did exactly what you should be doing – you looked after you.
I hope you will feel the benefit of having time with your daughter and enjoying happier pursuits, it makes the other stuff easier to cope with.
Stay strong over any money requests – you can do it.
Methinks I must see Bridget Jones!
Velvet

[Hope1]

Hi velvet,
Yes , see Bridget Jones, light comedy, and fun. You are right. It is important to value and spend time with our other two children. Our daughter lives v
Close and we see each other a lot, so she takes on some of the worries re her bro.
Today was horrible, I knew about the laptop, he pawned it but didn’t admit it etc etc, then my husband went into our loung and the Apple TV and speakers had gone. My husband phoned our CG at work, he owned up to pawning, and said he would get them back on pay day. My husband challenged him in asking what right did he have to pawn what wasn’t his. CG went on to say he was struggling with concentrating at work and had chest pains. We have said, if that is the case go to the gp. What do we need to do. We have a lock on our study door and on our bedroom door. Do we need one for our lounge now?
I am going crazy. Where can he go? I really need help. Hope

[Hope1]

You know what, I loved that time with my daughter, we had a laugh and fun , but then reality kicks in as I just said, I am so weary and fed up. I just can’t help him, I know it has to come from him, but it’s heartbreaking and destroying my soul just seeing him mess up his life.ni want to detach from him but I can never do so as he is my son who was such a beautiful person and lovely soul. Where is he. Can’t write any more as crying xx hope

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I have read your post a few times and I am writing to tell you that I am giving it a lot of thought before I reply as I want to get things as right as I can for you.
I promise you that you are not going crazy.
Velvet

[velvet]

Dear Hope
I wish I could believe you would get them back on pay day but he is sadly following a recognisable pattern of behaviour that appears to be getting worse, even down to the supposed chest pains when challenged. Sadly if your possessions are returned from the pawn shop they will probably disappear again. I can’t tell you to put a lock on your lounge door but if you want to protect things that matter to you maybe it is the only way.
I can’t tell you that ‘a’, ‘b’, or ‘c’ will work because there is no crystal ball but a united front from his whole family is important with everybody understanding that enablement will only keeps his addiction alive. Now that your son has stolen from you it is very important to protect your finances and possessions or you could lose things of importance and sentiment that you will never see again. I know how tough it is, I know it is hard to see the boy you love destroying his life. I believe the boy with the beautiful soul is still there but he is consumed by an ugly addiction at the moment and every time he achieves something that provides him with money to gamble, be it stealing or pleading, the ugliness will grow. It is so important therefore to say ‘no’ to his addiction and mean it.
I suggest you don’t waste your breath trying to reason with him but maybe stick to telling him that you feel you can only support him when he seeks help.
You are stronger than you son’s addiction however much you feel that you are struggling. Looking after yourself and staying in control of your life is essential for your health and ultimately it is the best thing you can do for your son.
Speak soon and never never give up hope.
Velvet

[Hope1]

Hi velvet. I have had a busy week , so not had chance to write. Our son had pay day on the 30 th, silence, no discussion re paying what he owes or getting the Apple TV back. He’s been very quiet and recluse like in his room. He was upset this morning and crying, but didn’t want to talk but he inform us that his girlfriend has finished with him. I have asked him what his plans are for paying his debts and the usual response was given e.g I’m sorting it. We have no idea what he is doing with his money,where he is at in his mind. How long. Ann

[vera]

Hope, I am not for one second condoning your son’s behaviour, but as a CG, I can feel the hell he is going through right now. I often suggest the „tough love“ approach, but I would say to you „go easy „. He knows he is in deep s*** . Everything is closing in on him. In my book, you don’t kick someone when they are down. Not even a horrible ol’ CG. Is there any chance you can call a family meeting and tell him you want to help him? Without enabling him of course. A GA meeting might be what he needs…..haven’t read the whole history but alarm bells and scary memories went off in my head when I read your last few posts. As sick as this may sound, I had to wipe the grin off my face when I visualized the scenario where your husband walked in and saw the vacant TV space. I know it’s not funny at all. I could just imagine your son „lugging“ the TV all the way to the pawn shop under his coat……Let’s hope the day will come, when you and he can look back and have a good laugh about this too. ….I remember coming home from yet another gambling fiasco a few years ago and putting my car on a „For sale“ site. At 3am and checking every 5 minutes for a buyer!!
CGs just don’t think straight when it comes to gambling.
Your son needs help. I hope and pray he will wise up soon. Asking a CG what his/her plans are to pay off debt is the scariest question on earth. It’s like holding somebody by the throat and asking them what are their plans to breath.
There is a very fine line between support and enablement. I really feel for you in this situation. I am the mother of a „wayward“ son who is definitely my ticket to heaven. I am also a CG so „tickets“ are out of bounds.
The only thing I would say is keep the communication open. CGs have no boundaries when we are in action. Don’t hesitate to inform him if he carries out any more illegal acts ie stealing your property, he could find himself in the police station. CGs withdraw and become reclusive for many reasons. When I isolated and alienated myself from everybody, my prayer was „dear God don’t let them ignore me in the same way I’m ignoring them“!
Isolating oneself can often be an unheard cry for help.
Keep telling him THERE IS HELP AVAILABLE.
Show him this post if you think it might help.
Over and out!

[Hope1]

I know he is feeling pain, we do support him and we tell him we are always here to talk and to help him. It’s been a really complex journey.
I wish you well in your journey, and thank you for taking the time to post. Hope , hoping

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I know you won’t kick him when he is down but I am concerned that your finances are being stretched, you can no longer trust your son with your possessions and sadly his addiction will take you all the way down with it, if you allow it. Your son knows about being answerable to others, he learned it in GMA and he will not have forgotten it; which is why I think there is a likelihood that the reason he is not talking to you is because he is hoping you will go quietly into the night leaving him to go to work and muddle his way through to the next pay day – whilst probably chasing his losses as this is his way of alleviating pain.
I think that “I’m sorting it” is distraction because clearly he is not while you are funding his train fare and he is stealing from you. Is he paying anything for his keep? In my opinion, ‘sorting it’ would be allowing you to take over his pay and budget for him but in my view he is choosing to stick his head in the sand and hope the world will go away.
Maybe an intervention meeting with the whole family would work – a concerted effort to let him know that while you all care you will not feed his addiction and to this end it is important that he seeks help. My only reservation with this is that I know of circumstances where this method has not been successful and the divisiveness of the addiction has raised more issues than it has resolved. It is important, therefore, that all the participants are in agreement with what they want to achieve before they start and that the atmosphere is warm without any threats or raised voices.
I think that maybe the loss of his girlfriend is good in the long term in that your son can focus more on himself and what he needs to do, however, the loss may induce further self-pity for a while which is probably the reason behind his tears.
I agree with Vera when she says to keep telling him that support is available even though he knows it and he knows where to go for it. At the moment he is ‘choosing’ not to seek support.
I am still of the opinion that this thread is for ‘you’ to give you support to help you cope, suggesting he reads one or two selected posts will not, in my opinion, help you.
Velvet

[Hope1]

Well here we are again, pay day cycle 3. We suspect he has done the same again, no money, his excuse being his bank card is damaged ( he showed me and it was bent) and hes waiting for a new one. Five days and it’s still not arrived. He won’t talk. I have said that he needs to be open and prove where his money is going, I have suggested that since he is having problems managing his finances he should hand over to me. There is nothing forthcoming from him. He is just existing, going to work is all he does then is reclusive in his room. What a life!!? I am just plodding, we are doing our best to protect ourselves. The only money I have given him is the train fare, perhaps I shouldn’t, but in a way it’s for me cos I can’t bear the thought of him not being in a job and ending up at home all day. Our son needs help, but he seems blind to it. To me he is in the same position he was in before GM rehab. I really can’t see his future. No matter how hard I try to get on with life, I feel totally exhausted. That’s why I didn’t join the live chat last week, it was just a bad day where I felt shattered and emotionally drained. Hope

[nomore 56]

I’m always a bit hesitant to post on a parent’s thread, especially when it’s a mom. We can end a relationship or get a divorce but we will always love our children and be concerned about them, no matter how old they are. However, one issue is the same across the board imho. As long as we make it possible for the cg to continue on the path of destruction and keep the addiction alive, they don’t have a real reason to make a change and work on their recovery.
My hb completed 2 inpatient treatments and relapsed each time. After the first he did not gamble for many years but the addiction was still there He thought, felt and acted like a dry drunk. After the second he relapsed right away. Despite having spent a year in prison for a crime he committed to finance his gambling. Due to our financial situation I was literally forced to enable him. He had a roof over his head, food to eat, my old car to drive, money for gas and cigarettes and I had no choice because he threatened to take most of the money away should I refuse. He didn’t care about the endless arguments, the agony my daughter and I went through for years every day. Nothing mattered to him but the urge to gamble. The only reason he finally decided to make an honest attempt to face the beast in the corner was that I told him that he had to leave. The threads didn’t work anymore, my sanity was more important to me. He had nowhere to go and nobody to turn to anymore. So he decided to seek treatment again. He had no other choice anymore. Now he has been in recovery for almost 7 years and the changes in him are truly remarkable.
Yes, he was mad at me. Yes, he threatened suicide, became angry and depressed and tried to pull the „poor me“ and „it’s your fault when I end in misery“ on me. All the time. He wanted me to worry about him and feel guilty. Nothing but manipulation. And not intentionally, I’m sure as he is very disgusted now with the person he became when he gambled.
I like to think that giving a cg money for gas, tickets, and food, to provide shelter and other basic stuff when he actually has enough to support himself, is like giving an addict alcohol or drugs. When there is no real need to quit, it is most likely not going to happen. Sometimes we have to just stand our ground and even if it hurts, it might be what’s best for for the addict.
I hope you find a way to get some peace and joy back into your life.

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I wrote most of my reply to you yesterday but I didn’t post it as I wanted to give it more thought which has given me the chance to read Nomore’s post. I want to say how much I agree with her that no matter who we are, the issue is the same. When confronted with the addiction to gamble, it makes no difference whether we are parent, spouse or child, if we allow the addiction to control our lives then we do not help the CG or ourselves.
I know I appear cynical but if a CG wants money and his bank card is bent, he will be straight on to the bank to get what is rightfully his money – that is provided there is any money left in the account.
I hear in your posts a gentle, loving mother, struggling to come to terms with the boy she raised and loved from birth being unhappy – and who is finding it impossible to hold back from giving that son that which she believes he needs to live and go to work. Board and lodging doesn’t seem unreasonable for a mother to give her son – but to a gambler the money saved from not paying that board and lodging and the little amount of ￡2.20 a day saved, from not having to find a train fare, is money to gamble and it is that gamble which keeps the gamble-brain active.
Your son does need help but I suspect he isn’t blind, I think his eyes are wide open to the fact that provided he is fed, housed and can get to and from work he can earn his gambling money. Please do not thing I don’t understand how you feel but it seems to me that while you can’t bear the thought of him being without a job your son is more than willing to bear it – what I suspect ‘he’ can’t bear is the thought of not being able to gamble.
I know I sound like a broken record when I say that my CG told me that as long as I enabled him he didn’t see the point in facing his demons. Your son knows that facing those demons is tough; he knows he will have a painfully difficult time while he fights his addiction so he will want to avoid it for as long as he can. What he is not thinking about is the future where the demons are beaten and the suffering and misery is a thing of the past – he can’t see that with his gamble befuddled brain – but you can.
Nomore is saying that in her experience her CG relapsed again and again but he also tried and tried again until, having lost all enablement he succeeded. She is able to write as I do; that she knows the addiction to gamble can be controlled. As a wife, Nomore’s outcome was different from mine and will surely be different from yours but her issue was the same. The beauty about this forum and Gamanon groups is the ability to hear more than one voice saying the same thing in slightly different ways, which hopefully helps to bring clarity to the confusion that the addiction to gamble relies upon.
Please keep posting – you are in my thoughts
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I’m sorry you didn’t make the group last night.
I know that every post and group seems to get tougher and tougher and sometimes everything becomes too much to take on but please keep posting.
There were weeks when I felt I couldn’t face Gamanon – I couldn’t bear to be in a room with so much pain but I don’t think an evening passed without a smile at some point and on some evenings a lot of laughter. One evening, in particular, when daylight drew to a close, nobody put the light on and in the dark we talked and laughed until we cried even though the reason we were there together was horrendous – when the lights went on we looked awful!
It is hard to pack a smile into just one hour when there seems to be so much to say that wouldn’t raise a smile on the face of the Cheshire cat but never give up talking and sharing – I promise you in the end you will laugh and smile again and although I don’t believe you will ever look back on this experience with any laughter you will be able to cope with the memory of it. I use my experience for reference only and it doesn’t hurt me anymore although I make sure I never dwell for long in that part of the past
Your son can control the force that is eating away at him but taking control of that force is hard and I believe, that for now anyway, he is delaying it as long as he possibly can.
I hope you are looking after yourself, seeing friends, eating and sleeping well and enjoying as much as you can that doesn’t relate to gambling.
Velvet

[Hope1]

Well we are on the fourth pay cycle. We had a promise that I would go to the bank with him to withdraw the money he has borrowed for train fare to work etc ( he says he still does not have a replacement card) . Monday 31 st arrived, I had altered my work day to give me time for us to go to the bank, he had said he had arranged a late shift. Surprise, surprise he informs me that his bank has contacted him to say that one of his debters have taken money out of his account illegally and that it would be Wednesday before it was sorted. Well I’ll give it to him, he can come up with some great story lines, maybe he should get a job writing for east Enders or corrie . So we are now in the position of he needs train fare again.
Yesterday when all this happened I said that we should go to the bank as planned, and that if he got a statement printed out, maybe I could believe this bizarre storyline. Of course he refused saying “ I’ll sort it “ . I reminded him that he had to provide this type of proof at GM.
Last night I told him not to ask for any money be it for train fare or whatever and that he had to take ownership and full responsibility for himself.
So this morning, he is still in bed, so I am assuming he is not going in.
Taking this action of nota giving him any money is frightening for me cos the job seems to be the only good think happening for him, he’s doing really well and has the chance of fast track training. So am I doing the right thing.
I’m going to work in a bit, but his dad is at home today. Our plan is that my husband will ask about work, and if he says he can’t go cos of no train fare, my husband will offer to run him to work on the proviso that they call in the bank for a print out statement.
I feel as though I am in a dark scary wood in the depth of night where I don’t know what is going to jump out. I feel really anxious this morning.
When all of this happened yesterday I felt physically sick, my heart was beating rapidly as if in panic mode. I felt physically unwell, it was an hour or so before I felt my body settle down.
My son has said that he feels as though our relationship is irreparable, that it will never be the same . I reminded him of how we have stuck with him and how much we have believed he can overcome this addiction, but that only he can do it. I told him we will always love him but that trust comes with time and he has to work at it. Clearly he feels low in self esteem.
He said he and his girlfriend are not together, but that they are taking things easy and still seeing each other occasionally, so what that means I don’t know.
I am hoping to check into the live chat tonight.
Any help would be appreciated, just to know we have done the right thing or not.
Hope

[velvet]

Dear Hope
I have thought about you a lot recently and I was shocked when i just looked for your thread and saw you had had no reply since your post on November.
I would love an update as if know things were moving slowly for you and your son was not co-operating with trying to control his addiction. I know you said that your son had told you that your relationship was irreparable but this was just his addiction talking – until honesty comes with control of the addiction I don’t think you should ever place much thought, if any, on such words.
I think it was following this post that you came into a group but I haven’t seen you since. I want you to know you are not forgotten and you are missed.
A person who has been through GMA learns how to use his tools but of course sometimes it takes time for those tools to be picked up and it is often easier to leave them lying in the back of the mind in the belief that they can be used when necessary. Necessity can often come only when everything is stacked against the CG however hard it is for those who love them.
I hope to hear from you soon
Velvet

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