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The first time i went to the casino and gambled was at Foxwoods before Mohegan sun was even built. I had fun and i was able to walk out with money in my pockets. And if I did lose i only lost what i came with. About the time my mom was diagnosed with lymphoma was when it started escalating. It only got worse after she died, i went forget to escape the terrible grief i was trying to deal with. My mom was my whole world. Without her i felt lost and useless. It eventually brought me to insanity and attempted suicide. I even gambled after that for a while. I finally went to my first Gamblers anonymous meeting around 7-22-05. I have been going to it ever since but my date is only 5-1-12. Well this is a little history of my gambling. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
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Hi slot,
Good to hear that you’re getting along with your new counselor.
You must always feel comfortable with your counselors so that you can share anything with them.
Go along with your treatment plan and all the best!Stormy."The safest way to double your money is to fold it over once and put it in your pocket."
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It has been a long time since i been here on site. I have a new date of 1/5/13. Have not gone to casino but have played slots on phone and computer. Not for money but did buy a slot machine to play on phone. Did it to escape my troubles and the worries. Beginning to think i was meant to always gamble, just not for money.
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Originally posted by slotjunkie
It has been a long time since i been here on site. I have a new date of 1/5/13. Have not gone to casino but have played slots on phone and computer. Not for money but did buy a slot machine to play on phone. Did it to escape my troubles and the worries.
… Beginning to think i was meant to always gamble …
Good morning SJ,
First well done on your gambling free time, all of the quality time that has helped and strengthen you to continue with your journey; recovery is not a destination, it is a journey, a journey that is measured by progress.
As for gambling without money is concerned, for me it is up to each of us a CGs to make this type of decision for ourselves. I know that the International GA program states that "Gambling for the compulsive gambler is defined as follows: Any betting or wagering, for self or others, whether for money or not, no matter how slight or insignificant, where the outcome is uncertain or depends upon chance or ‘skill’ constitutes gambling". But personally, I lean more towards the UK GA policies that do not define gambling in any way. I believe that we do not necessary need a definition, and feel that the GA definition might even be a little harmful in that it may give the impression of justifying gambling by CGs not ready to except the facts about the addiction, Because of the general definition being argumentive as to what is "uncertain" a "chance", or what is "skill", (something akin to a notorious legal political statement a few years back dealing with certain immoral actions of our president e.g. "depends on what the definition of "is" is. When we are in action and under the control of this addiction, any gambling in spite of any definition is not seen as compulsive gambling, or even just gambling most of the time. I do agree the the part "no matter how slight or insignificant" is highly signficant in any actions we take to feed our addiction of compulsive gambling.
Your free slot play falls in this category and one where you have to make the determination of it being gambling or not. And alos begs an answer the more important question, "will your ‘free’ play keep your mind open to the embedded characteristic properties of gambling and cause you to venture back out into the world of compulsive gambling for money?"; thinking that any wins there also relate to your chance at winning money, or will any series of losses cause you to think that your luck is due to change so why not use it to win money. Recovery is not easy and takes a lot of sole searching and choices.
Now I will take the opportunity to spout off on some layman’s thoughts concerning the psychological views on us being the person that we are meant to be, on your statement, "Beginning to think i was meant to always gamble".
What we are meant to be at ***** causes a conflict between our "desired state of being" and our "actual state of being" at any given time. The degree of discrepancies between the two, and the level of "spiritual" qualities represented, is what defines any problems we have to face when choosing what path we should follow. When the differences are great we live in a struggle between the two; having to listen to both the devil and the angle on either shoulder so to speak. When there is little difference there is less chaos and less need to escape the challenges, it is just part of the diversified adventures of life. Some***** the actual state is the one where we should choose to remain when the desired state holds disruptions in a "normal" way of living, or goes against the laws of the land, nature, or the environment and social atmosphere we live. And if the desired state holds the greatest virtues and characteristics, it is the one that should be pursued.
Compulsive gambling is neither a desired or actual state of being or to live in, it is a third unnatural state of being; the state of addiction is one that we have no rational reason to accept or keep. We need to combat and put it behind us so that we can again choose between the natural states of desire and actual; nurturing the one that is best at advancing the real person that is good and processes the spiritual characteristics of the human mind that represent the highest and finest qualities such as kindness, generosity, honesty and humility.
Thanks for the use of your topic and statement. Spouting off my thought to others is helpful to me, and perhaps can be helpful to others, even if confusing it can make them think.
God’s speed. Stay strong. Keep aware. And be careful in choosing between any desired state of being and the actual one.
LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT, "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free. -
Things are going well with me. My new gambling counselor is actually working out. She is helping more than my old one did. We are working on me as well as my gambling recovery. This has been hard for me, but it is something that must be done. haven’t gambed since january 15 of this year. Can’t say that the urges are gone but i dont give in to them.
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Good to meet you in the chat the other day, SJ!
I’m sure counselling is hard on you. I’m glad you found a helpful counsellor. Have you sorted out the difference between "online gambling for fun" and "real" gambling?
I know the fun/free gambling is definitely a way of sucking us in to the real thing again, but I don’t believe it puts us back to Day One!
Just my opinion!
I would be interested to hear your latest thought and ideas about it !
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Thanks for the kind words you two i really appreciate them. i am currently in the process of having myself banned from the casino I almost went to. I have not had any further gambling on my phone since then. I am slowly learning to use the tools, g.a. and this site has taught me. I have been working on some amends that need to be made. Hopefully they will help the people i have hurt. So many poeple knew i had a problem before I ever thought i did. I remember when my first therapist kept asking me if i had thought about going to get help for my gambling, but i always said i dont have a problem. I am ok. Even though it caused to me wanting to end my life, i still did not think i had a problem. I finally admitted i had a problem four months after she first started mentioning g.a. to me. It was the best decision i have made since my mom passsed away,which started my path of destruction with gambling. I still have many struggles today, but i am slowly making my life better. I will definitely continue to post here Sherry. I just do not get on my puter as much as i would like to.
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Been really struggling with gambling and life issues. Have not went to an actual casino but have changed my date 5/28/13.In my mind i know that is not a good way to escape, but my disease took over my mind and said it was ok. I still very much want to escape but trying other avenues than gambling. I know it is not the way to solve life’s issues, but right now it is all i can do.
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As the saying goes ‘we only need to get through today’. Don’t worry about any more than that. Something that helped me to break the habit of gambling every Saturday was to break the day down. I was used to escaping around 2:00 on Saturdays and stayed until I was out of money and then one Saturday I realized I only need to get through 4 or 5 hours and the opportunity to gamble would pass. I’d watch a Lifetime movie, or meet my husband for a late lunch or meet up with friends or even take a nap. That Saturday habit isn’t such a big issue anymore now that I only have to get through a few hours. That’s just something that’s helped me and I wanted to share it with you.
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Gost
So good to see you writing here again, as Jane says you have been doing well. You have been attending many of my sessions and progress is good. Keep it up, I will see you at session soon.
Cathie -
Well, my gambling program is getting better. Still have date of 6/17. I have been told i can post all my problems here not just gambling problems. My depression has finally cost me my job of 22 years. The only thing i truly believed i was good at is gone. And i was not good at it. Don’t know what else to say. Might as well just give up.
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Hi SJ
I’m so sorry your having such a rotten time right now but I have to say the fact you haven’t gambled under these difficult circumstances is a real testament to just how remarkable you are! I think an appropriate saying here would be:
On a good day, everything goes well, the sun is shining, we see friends and laugh and go to bed without having gambled…
On a GREAT day, everything goes wrong, it rains all day, we row with the kids, stub our toe on the door, have a migraine….and go to bed without gambling.
You won’t give up SJ because you haven’t given up yet!
Take care
Janey
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The monkey wrench i talked about velvet is my brother. He is 6 years older than me and lives in an alzhiemer unit due to his mental status. It breaks my heart to see him that way. I will finally accept the changes in him and move on, but until i do that i get so mad and angry bout whole situation that i curse my higher power. He recently had to go to another psych ward due to his illness. So that is the monkey wrench. My date still 6/17.
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I am sorry about your brother…I hear you..I work in an assisted living facility with many Alzheimer residents..It is heartbreaking…but try to just be compassionate and not angry…My mother committed suicide when I was 15..For my whole life I was so angry at her…more recently I have turned around (not 100% but getting there)…to see just how unhappy she was and she just couldn’t live on this planet anymore…Hopefully your brother is comfortable where he is..Kudos to you for not gambling through this…
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Hi Lori
There are many things that none of us will ever understand and I can see why you are angry with your Higher Power.
I have no answers for you but I do know that gambling will only hurt you further. It is comforting to hear that you know you will finally accept the changes and I hope that the Serenity to accept will come to you soon.
I haven’t forgotten what you told me made you happy – hold fast to the good things Lori and to the person whose life you can control.
6/17 or 17/6 in the UK sounds a great date. You are doing well in the face of great adversity and I am proud to have met you even if it is in cyber space.
Velvet
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I have been following your posts and admire you for having stayed gamble free through such adversity..I recently watched Brene Brown on a video TED talk online..an eye opening thing she said (for me)..That when we numb ourselves through *****, alcohol or anything (gambling), it does numb the bad feelings but also numbs the good feelings as well, so prevents us from feeling the joy and strength we all need for a better and wholehearted life..Who wants to numb the good parts of ourselves? never realized gambling does that too..
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Still having urges but dealing with them. This posting really helps. Went to two g.a. meetings yesterday. kept me busy and they was good. Still have a lot of work ahead of me. Even little changes give me anxiety. Wish i knew why. Really trying to work thru it without medication but getting really frustrated. I so want to keep my date but part of me thinks i wont. Well i will post again soon.
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So this new looking web page is gonna take some time getting used to. I was confused before so now i am really confused. Well unfortunately i have given into my urges again. Really need to accept that i need to get rid of puter or put blocker on it. I have no excuse now. my sister has her own laptop and that was my last excuse i was using. I am still fearful of change. Yet it rules me. Hopefully now that site it back up and running, i can take my own advice and start posting when i get the urge. That worked before. Not sure if i like the new page but that is just me being me with change (lol). I hope to post here soon again.
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Hi there..I also hate change! Oh–I miss the comfort of signing on to the old site and just seeing all the familiar “people”…This particular change won’t spur my gambling..I did that on my own already..Today is day 3 starting again ..I am really exhausted with all this…but I have to just think that ANY day without gambling is some accomplishment..It’s all I can do for right now…It still is nice to see you on here and I hope we all can get back to our “right thinking” ways…:)
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Gost
Hi, The schedule for the groups is here
https://www.gettogethablog.com/en/online-support-groups
There’s a calendar at the top and there is a list underneath which shows all of the group times. If you click on that page when there is a group, you’ll be able to join.
If you still have trouble have a look at the “user guides” as Harry is making some videos to show you how to do stuff on the site.
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Just wanted to let the people who know me that my brother is finally at peace. He passed away on october 10. I finally have some peace in my life that I have not had for a very long time. My new date is today. So if you don’t see me here much it is because i am putting laptop away for a bit as i cannot afford gambling blocks.
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Hi SJ
That looks much better, you should now see the groups in your times both in list and calendar view.
SJ, You wrote “as i cannot afford gambling blocks.” please dont put your laptop away, if anything during this time you need support and a place to talk.
Whilst a paid version of Betfilter is the best there is an alternative called RGmanager. Both are made by the same company, both work well. The only difference is RGmanager is password protected and as such whomever installs it will know the password. Have you someone who can install this ? and also let them use their email address so you can’t request a password reminder.
Download RGmanager from this link
Take Care
Harry
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Hi Sj, please accept my condolences on the loss of your brother.
At a time like this it is more important than ever that you use some form of support. Did you read Harry’s post about a free blocker? If you are going to use this site less at the moment then what other support are you going to use? mayve aGA meeting, that doesn’t require internet access.
Again my condolences. Now is a time when it’s important to use all the support you have available to you.
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This is my new date. I told my gambling counselor and my sponsor about my gambling. My sponsor said “why didn’t you call me before gambling.” and my counselor helped me figure out strategies to help prevent this from happening over and over again. I have more resolve than ever to stay gambling free this time. I have thought at times that fake slots cannot hurt me. But it has. By escaping that way I am only delaying the inevitable. I must deal with my reality and the feelings that come with it. Otherwise i will eventually go back to gambling at real casino. I have put some new recovery practices in place. Gonna call my sponsor at least 4 times a week. I will start journaling again and i am putting a gratitude list on my computer. Well will write more later gotta get ready to go to my ga meeting. Thanks for the talk Janey.
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I have just come from my group therapy. Was very intense for me. We watched a movie called “big steve” Was about a person in throes of his compulsive gambling and how he found GA. What really hit me about the movie was when he tried to commit suicide in the end. My gambling brought me to that point and i still gambled. Reminded me of how sick a compulsive gambler i was. Just thinking bout the past now. (sigh)
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Hi SJ, I think November is going to be a good month for you…the month you turn your life around and quit gambling for good. It looks like you are doing some very positive things and really working on your recovery. good for you! Try not to think too much about the past. Today is a new day. Focus on that and the future will be brighter! Take care
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So I talked with my gambling counselor today and she is going help me on Wednesday after group to install the free bet filter. Doing it with her will help me feel better and know that I wont have the password. She is going put the information in my file in case something happens to her. I also want to thank you for the talk Charles in group today. It helped a lot. I have a renewed passion for my recovery.
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What a fantastic positive post SJ, Just in case you need the link its https://www.rgmanager.com
Take Care
Harry
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Hi (((slotjunkie)))! It’s been a long while since I posted to you. I used to post under Carole8755. It’s good to see that you still are on the recovery train, even though you got off at a few unscheduled stops! I have been in recovery for 3 years though I’ve had many slips along the way. My gambling became much more often after my brother died suddenly. I didn’t have the skills to cope with his death. Sorry you lost your Mom! I can understand wanting to escape the crushing grief. It’s great that you are seeking help and support, as this is a disease that thrives on secrecy, and in my opinion, cannot be arrested without the support of people who understand the addiction. Take one day at a time, and any day that is gamble free is a good day. Progress not perfection! Carole
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Well I find I need to make a sign when I sit at library computer. So making one to post when I am there. Been escaping again. I had something happen to me the other day, it really upset. My bro that just passed had a photo album with pictures of the car from 1977 car accident that killed my other bro. Never wanted to see them and unfortunately I opened the wrong end of the book. I know see why my mother had to identify him by his wallet. So I am really gonna work hard on staying clean from gambling because of it. Thanks for letting me vent
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Life in a northern town by The dream academy. the devil went down to georgia the charlie daniels band, Home by Phillip Phillips, Thinking of you by Christian Kane, Another day in paradise by Phill Collins, Theme from Caddy Shack Movie, Love Shack by B-52’s, Rhianon by Fleetwood Mac, Cosmik Debris from Frank Zappa, Some Steely Dan, Chicago and of course, MArgaritaville by Jimmy Buffet. That it is.
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Thinking of you (((slotjunkie)))! I can empathize with you over losing a brother to a tragic death, but for you to lose 2 brothers is more than I can contemplate dealing with. Do the best you can and know there are people on GT here that are here for you to support you during this extremely difficult time for you. Carole
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I have been to two meeting this week and i have a more positive outlook on my recovery. I am going to start writing in my journal everyday again. I will also start using recovery tools that were told to me a long time ago from the first person i met in g.a. He has a very good recovery and along time since he gambled. (but as he says all he has is today). I have since blocked all the gambling games on facebook. My thought is that maybe if i don’t see them i wont be tempted. I am more determined than ever to stay gambling free. I am also trying a suggestion to boost my opinion of myself. I am buying a mirror and while looking in it, i will say five times “I am a good person” and then say I do deserve the good things. I starting to see a therapist again. Me and my psychiatrist think i need too. And last but not least i will try to attend more of the groups here. They really help me. And my last date is March 2,2014. That is gonna be my last new date!
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Hi. I am new here so please bear with me as I am just looking and learning my way around but the post this is in reply to really caught my attention. So, I hope no one minds that I begin my venture on this website by chiming in right here. The post makes a good point about gambling not always having to involve monetary gain or as I know it better only all too often loss and makes absolute sense to me. That as far as gambling goes, It Is What It Is but to completely quit gambling does this mean for example that one should never ever in a lifetime play a game like Yahtzee that uses dice to make Poker hands for scoring or if having played Yahtzee to never play another game ever? I ask this because my first game of Yahtzee goes way back to my youth in the 70’s and that eventually my sister and I started playing the game for a quarter. I am now concerned that innocent childhood games may not be so innocent after all and with my own children and now 6 grandchildren I most certainly do not want to lead them onto the same path of gambling I have had the entirety of my adult life that started with my 1st games of Old Maid for candy or Yahtzee for a quarter. smh just makes me realize what I was exposed to as a kid and if I only knew then what I know now I would have most certainly taken an entirely different approach to so-called innocent childhood game playing fun! Thanks in advance for reading this post reply and any feed back is appreciated.
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Hi SJ! I hear that about change! Too, I know it helps when blocking Gambling Web Sites to allow someone other than oneself choose and make the password and to keep it secret. This way when an urge to gamble online hits one cannot gain access to the Web site, at least on one’s own system. Now, of course this changes when an urge hits and one has access to an unblocked system. So, wherever possible, one should also put gambling blocks and secret passwords to stop access to any gambling Web site on any system one has within easy reach. Not a foolproof solution because one’s mind set plays a big part in the I can do attitude needed, but it helps.
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Just take it one day at a time, it counts and eventually adds up nicely. I quit gambling entirely for 3 years once and it all started with one day. Imagine counting not gambling in years instead of days! The problem was that no one else seemed to notice the difference like it was just expected just like that and I stopped counting the days! Stopping anything bad, negative, or detrimental starts with small steps in the right direction but eventually one gets to where they are headed. That’s why I am here today to get that feeling of accomplishment back! As of today, I have not gambled for 2 days ?? tomorrow will make 3. I am determined to Win this! ?? Good Luck to you as well!
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Sorry this is posted so late Harry. Everything went well with the speech that I gave. I was very very nervous though. I talked about my whole story and how low my gambling addiction brought me too. Everyone said I did fine but you know me. I thought I did a terrible job. (that is one of my many character defects I am working on…lol)
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Hi (((slotjunkie)))! Way to go on the public speaking about your story. Public speaking is most people’s number 1 fear. I know I hate it and get very anxious. I too deleted all the facebook games as all it did was make me waste many hours a day and make me want to gamble for real. It sounds like you are putting in time and effort to work your recovery. That’s always a good thing!! Carole
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SJ it is interesting how many people fear public speaking. I have to do it with my job and I don’t like it, but I force myself to do it. It is strange as I am outgoing, chat to people one on one and am not shy, however, when it comes to public speaking it is different. I know that I have met people who are good at public speaking and then you find out they have a fear of it, but you would never know. I often wonder if it is because we don’t like all the attention on us, or we are frightened that we make a full of ourselves. WTG on facing a fear and you know what it will get easier the more you do it!!!
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I have just had an interesting talk in the group i just attended. It made me realized i am not doing enuf for my recovery. I keep saying i need to do this and that. But i rarely do. So i am starting by posting in here. I been working on my depression partly due to my gambling. It has been hard. whenever gets hard i want to escape to a safe place so i dont have to deal with ti. (inpatient place). But this time i am working on it with gambling counselor, psychiatrist and friends at g.a. Sometimes i feel like i was destined to be miserable forever. Like my heart was shattered in a million pieces and it can never be put back together again. other days i feel like it can be done. Today is a day of feeling like i can. So i am gonna call my sponsor later today and hopefully do some journaling and maybe make a call to my very best friend in g.a. He was the first one i met and we still see each other regularly at meetings. Been lazy at calling him too.l
Well posting here is a start. i usually end every group i attend with i will post in my journal and this time i did -
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Gost
SJ, was lovely to talk to you earlier. That’s a lot of positive steps you are taking so well done. I am glad you are feeling that you can . It makes me realise we all can
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Earlier last week my gambling counselor ask me to speak at training seminar on tuesday. I’ m happy to say it went well. It really boosted my confidence. I have also been more positive than I have ever been since joining g.a. This week is usually tough for me as it contains the date my brother passed in 1977. But on that day it did not dwell just thought about it for a hour or two and did not let it ruin my week. This is the first this has ever happened. That is a huge accomplishment for me. Never thought i would ever say those words. I had so many feeling about his death that i had to get thru. I wont go into them, but just knowing I am thru them is truly a miracle (never thought i would use this word). Well just wanted to let you all know that i am doing alot better and hopefully I will keep this momentum up.
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i know this is not about gambling but i really need to get this off my chest. Yesterday my sister took our cat Stanley to the vets. The vets found a mass in his belly. After a scan he found the mass was full of cancer. I was hoping to make the topic group but i was late. My recovery is going ok. I am still positive but really down bout my cat. Thank you for letting me post in here.
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Our pets are a really important part of our lives and it grieves us deeply when they are ill and in pain. Their pain can remind us of other pain in our lives, too. We offer them comfort when they need it; they have often offered us comfort and joy.
It is good that your recovery is going ok.
I hope you will know the right decisions to make for your cat.Monique
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So i have started on a new phase of my recovery. I am starting to work on the financial part it. current bills not bills from gambling. It is gonna be hard for me to do this. Have never done this my whole life. Sorry for leaving group charles was in over-load about the stuff i was hearing. Recovery is going ok for me. If i could only handle the curves life throws at me i would be better. Seeing a new therapist for the first time. Also have had to get a new pshychiatrist as mind left practice.
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I have taken another positive step in my recovery. I have blocked all slot apps from my facebook account. Was thinking playing them was okay but i realize they just tempting me. I do not want to have to change my date cause they led me back to the casino. This should help me in my recovery.
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Gost
Hi Sj, this is a good tip..cos when I find my mind goes to imagine if this was real money…you are doing really great and u certainly helped me a lot in chat tonight!!
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I have again blocked more facebook slots. And this time I am I not adding them back in. Really need to get back to basics with no slots of any kind. Why I seem to like torture I do not know. I am going to hit a g.a. meeting tomorrow morning per usual. Hopefully I will be at some of the groups here after that.
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Well last Tuesday, November 4th, was election day here in usa. The residents of Massachusetts voted yes to a new casino in their state. Unfortunately for me it is only a 35 minute drive. So as I was saying in the group I was just in, I will have to ban myself from that casino when it opens. I have also learned this week that there is only 2 states that have not legalized gambling in here in usa. Hawaii and Utah. I never knew so few states did not allow gambling. Really blew my mind.
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I was wrestling where I should post this blog. In poetry section or my journal. I finally decided on here. It is my description of fear. So here I go. FEAR-It looks like a very evil black mass. It has no real shape. It has very evil eyes. It’s stench is fowl smelling. The eyes seem to speak to me saying “I want to drain all the fearlessness out of you.” They also say, “I want to make you so afraid that you will not want to try anything new.” so there it is. It still has a hold on me, but not near as bad as it did when I first started working a good recovery.
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Velvet’s idea is great. In addition, maybe you could imagine yourself attacking it in some way with your fearlessness? Maybe with a sword, shining light into its darkness, or maybe even some perfume? lol
I liked your post, so thank you for posting it. Reminded me of how much I let fear take over and cloud my decisions and justify my indecisions.
As Lizbeth said, “I just love this site!” -
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Hi SJ, good post and a good topic. Fear is a big one. It’s a normal human instinct to fear the unknown, to fear change. Even good changes. For a long time I was frightened to stop gambling – if I stopped gambling then what the hell else was I going to do with my time? When it comes to recovery and positive steps there is a saying I like – feel the fear and then do it anyway. ??
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Unfortunately i need to change my date. Next week when i see my counselor i am giving her my laptop. I will still have access to a computer at local library. I have been really thinking long and hard about my recovery. I think i have gambled with free slots most of my recovery. Used play the reel deal slots many years ago. It might be that I just cannot have a computer accessible to me at home. Well I am hoping this will be my last new date.
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Even though i missed alot of the groups on here i did manage to get to a g.a. meeting. My usual thursday morning one. It helped me out. Still having trouble with funk but have appt with doc on monday. Just worked out that way. I hope to make more groups next week. Life sure is funny that way.
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I promised charles i would post this a while back and cannot remember where he told me to post it. So i decided to post it here. It is more of a topic posting than about my personal recovery. I was talking in a group that was facilitated by charles about the usa’s gamblers anonymous definition of gambling. He thought it would be a good idea to post it here and get opinions about it. So here it is.
Gambling for the compulsive gambler is defined as follows: Any betting or wagering, for self or others, whether for money or not, no matter how slight or insignificant, where the outcome is uncertain or depends on chance or “skill” constitutes gambling. -
Well, not sure I’d qualify it as gambling if not for money.
Also is the definition of ‘gambling for gc’ different than gambling for a non-gc?Also what is “skill” and how is it different than skill?
Further ‘where the outcome is uncertain or depends on chance’ ?
All uncertain outcomes depend on chance to some degree. Unless you’re deterministic (which I am), but that’s a completely different subject.
They didn’t really thought this through. I wonder why would anyone come with such an arbitrary definition and present it as unquestionable.
Couldn’t they just say something like “gambling is any wager/betting for money where the outcome is uncertain and the odds are unfavorable for the bettor”
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Well, not sure I’d qualify it as gambling if not for money.
Also is the definition of ‘gambling for gc’ different than gambling for a non-gc?Also what is “skill” and how is it different than skill?
Further ‘where the outcome is uncertain or depends on chance’ ?
All uncertain outcomes depend on chance to some degree. Unless you’re deterministic (which I am), but that’s a completely different subject.
They didn’t really thought this through. I wonder why would anyone come with such an arbitrary definition and present it as unquestionable.
Couldn’t they just say something like “gambling is any wager/betting for money where the outcome is uncertain and the odds are unfavorable for the bettor”
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Thanks for posting this SJ,
For me gambling is anything that involves a stake with a possible win. That stake wouldn’t have to be financial, “The loser walks the dog” would be just as much gambling.
Good input JD, for me though even favorable odds would be gambling – a CG keeps gambling so no matter how favorable the outcome is the same isn’t it?
Any other thoughts?
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For ME, the only G weakness I have , is associated with slot machines.
I did go wild on Lottery tickets when they came out first. Now I can take them or leave them. So I am clearly not addicted. I just would have no interest in buying one no matter how big the prize is. I did back a few horses in my hay day. Again, take it or leave it. Wouldn’t ever cross my mind to go into a bookies or attend a race meeting any more. Did toss coins for fun when I was a teenager. Did play Bingo but to me the BIG ONE is slots. The only thing that got me hooked.
Bingo is seen by some as gambling…for ME it would be a boring night out. As I recall there are slot machines in the lobby of most bingo halls and in take always , pubs , on ships etc BUT FOR ME the only place I would play machines would be in a casino (den of iniquity) where I would be near an ATM and have endless time on my hands so let’s say I am a LIMITED gambler!!!!
Yes, all forms of gambling are a “game of chance” . Who knows who will become hooked on what, so since it’s a total waste of time , gambling is best avoided! -
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Gost
Hey SJ… I knew they would . I prayed !! Rem???? I said i would pray that God would touch the conscience of the person who fInds it!
I prayed so I just accepted that would happen.So pleased for you . I have just read through the definition of compulsive gambling. I think this is a definition of gambling . I think compulsive gambling would be this plus a bit about the addiction / compulsion etc.
But anything which opens a debate or gets us to think is good so thank you for posting that .
I am with Vera. I can buy one lottery ticket, I can play bingo … I can gamble on anything and walk away ..
The slots however are my downfall – whether on line or in a casino ! I am a compulsive slot machine plAyer.
Perhaps there are many others like that !
Going to thank God for your purse ! -
I am still struggling with my recovery. Been really tough lately. I still go to one meeting a week and see a gambling counselor and go to a group at gambling help center. They do help me but cannot seem to use the fake slots to escape from life. That is why i started at real casino before 2005 when i admitted i was a compulsive gambler. I am looking for other things to go but hard to do without a car. Well just a little update on my recovery all comments welcome
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Gost
Hi slot junkie!! Had to drop by and say WOW again.. What an achievement u shared in group tonight! Well done .. Go SJ!!
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Thanks for your post SJ.
In this part of the world, Self Exclusion means nothing! Maybe they will ask you to leave IF they see you, but that usually doesn’t happen until you win a jackpot. Just means you lose face if you go in as well as losing money! I am banned from my comfort zones since 2008 and never darkened those doors again plus I did a “round the town” ban in the biggest city in Ireland a few years even though I had never gambled in most of those places.
Yes, SJ, I do often change the subject in groups. Not that I don’t want to take the advice given. I have followed 90% of advice given, believe it or not but I am not always willing to reveal details of private parts of my life.
Well done on your progress in Recovery. You are doing well!
I guess action speaks louder than word SJ.
Talk is cheap sometimes!!! -
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Well trying to post more. Been thinking about some of the suggestions i have been making to some of the people in the groups. I think i should listen to myself when i make comments like that, i should use a few of them myself. Still struggling but more conscious of my actions. I do not go on laptop at home as much, that has helped. I will hopefully make it to some groups this week.
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How you going today.. i hope that you manage to stay away from the online stuff this week.. free or not free it keeps that addicition alive and burning. Maybe a replacement like a fun game that doesnt involve gambling or some new hobbiies.. i get stuck on the computer for far too long sometimes googling everything on earth. Hope you are having a good day, i think i missed the cut off point for the group today or i would be in there, or i may have my days mixed up.. actually yes i think i do hahaha.. oh well.. see you soon in a group
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I don’t know if this will help you or not, but I’ve gone cold turkey on all gaming. Because I need to learn to do other things. As I have lost most ability to do whatever I was doing pregambling and computers. It’s a weird feeling and you won’t know how addicted you are until you try giving it up. Just food for thought. I realise we are all different, just thought I would share
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You are definitely right butchugly. I am not gonna make no excuses. What i have been doing is not good for my recovery. Will start to write in my journal more when i feel like playing the slots. Here and my personal journal. I cannot let my emotions take over me. That is when i get the urge.
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I have alot things going thru my mind these days. Been thinking of my life growing up as a kid. Wishing i could go back to that time and stay there forever. Never imagined i would end up a c.g. Even knowing that addiction runs in my family. I been really focusing on all the things that my gambling and co-dependency has affected. Besides hurting my family, it affected my relationship with my best forever friend online. We were never separated when on line then my gambling, co-dependency and suicide attempt ruined it. We still email each other and are facebook friends but it will never be the same and i still miss her to this day. Just for today i will try and not gamble on the fake slots. I will work on being more positive today as well. Lately i feel like everytime i share I burden people. I think saying i am good is the way to go even if it is a lie. Charles sorry i did not share this in group but like i said feel like i burden everyone.
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I have made a serious commitment to stay away from fake slots of any kind. I am posting here instead of playing the slots on face book. I think this is a much better choice. It is not gonna be easy for me. I have been using gambling to escape from life and the things that come up. I am going to focus on my gambling problems in my forum. So just for today i will not gamble.
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Well done.. that is wonderful.. finding other things to fill your time is good too. Hobbies, anything away from the computer games etc.. you can do this SJ at first its hard to break the habit but it can be done.. you’ve done it with land based casinos you can do it with this too.. one day at a time.. ??
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Well i got one day under my belt. I need to remind myself that i can do this one day at a time. Had a interesting talk with some people today. They reminded me what i need to do to stay gamble free. I must walk the walk not just talk the talk. Was thinking this week about things i have done in the past, and the consequences they had. They cost me a very precious friendship that will never be the same. Even though I really still miss her, know that it is in the best interest for her. She was my best forever friend online. We met in person and everything like that.
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Keep going.. congrats on your first day.. if you did one day you can do another. Just keep it simple, just for this one day dont gamble. Sounds so easy doesnt it, sounds like i think its easy, remember ive been here for Six years it took me a loooong time to get the fact that i only need do it for today..
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Well i now have 4 days of no gambling. Feels nice to say that. Went to a g.a. meeting this morning and it rejuvenated me as it was my first one in 2 1/2 weeks due to circumstances beyond my control. I am feeling better now and have got some of my motivation back. Again, all that make this site happen do a wonderful job.
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Well i have not gambled in 9 days. Longest it has been for a long while. Not having my computer helps. Funny I never used it everyday but now that i cannot use it i miss it everyday. That seems really strange. Things are getting better. Still having a hard time getting thoughts clear and focused. Depression is definitely getting better. Guess the new med my psychiatrist added is working, Hopefully will be back to work in 2 weeks. I just know that i gotta be 100 percent before i go back to work taking care of the elderly.
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Sunday will be two weeks since i last gambled. Longest I have gone with out playing face book slots in a while. I missed not being into groups but just had too much going on this week. It was all positive things, which is a change for me. My leave of absence got approved and i will not lose my job. But disability insurance does not cover mental health. So when i exhaust all my paid time i have from work, i must return. Hopefully when that happens i will be ready to go back to work. I will be in groups next week.
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my definition of fear
Fear-It looks like a very evil black mass. It has no real shape. It has very evil eyes. It’s stench is fowl smelling. The eyes seem to speak to me saying “I want to drain all the fearlessness out of you. They also say, “I want to make you so afraid that you will not want to try anything new.” This is my description of fear. -
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It is 1:30 in the morning. I am too wound up to sleep. So I thought I would post something here. I have gambled again. Was weak and let my disease take a hold on me. Was Friday. I have not gambled since then, even though I have been tempted. I guess I am not working my recovery good enough. So much in my head right now. So want to go back into my dream world (not gambling one) and stay there forever and ever. Well thanks for reading this message. .
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Hi SJ,
Great to hear about the Gamble Free time. I hope to see you in a group soon. I’ve been staying away from the blogs while I recover, focusing on other stuff. Sounds like you’ve been busy. Going to GA really works for me. I’ve driven 80 miles this week to go to 2 GA meetings.
See you soon.
All my love
M
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So here i sit wondering how can i fix my insides so i can do the external things i need to do. Although i have come along way since i last went to the casino in 2005, I still find it easy to escape thru facebook slots and pay for tokens. I have done that this morning for the last time. I feel like such a hypocrite at times using the support groups and still gambling. It seems like i am either very upbeat or very discouraged. no happy medium for me. For the moment i am making a good decision getting to my morning g.a. meeting.
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Hi SJ. You sound tired? Living in true recovery can seem so hard to do and you can get discouraged. Again, the one-day-at-a-time mantra is useful, I think, and your post ends in that way ‘for the moment, I am making a good decision …’
Also, I just thought ‘what are you doing to care for yourself in a special way? is there some fun? is there some really enjoyable thing, no matter how simple, you can focus on, for your own pleasure and well-being?’
Just my thoughts as I read your post. Sometimes we can concentrate too hard on the ‘problems’, so that our minds are just too full of those – switching to thinking about and doing totally different things may ease the pressure.
Best wishes,
Monique -
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After the support groups today, I really got pumped up. I blocked every slot site on my face book account. I am gonna start writing another journal of everything good in my life. Maybe in a month or so i will start working on my autobiography, which is at a difficult time in my childhood. I would like to thank everyone in the groups today. And, yes, that includes you p.
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In a poster created by the problem gambling services of connecticut. It states that over half of inmates with gambling disorder report that their incarceration resulted directly from gambling-related crimes. Despite the prevalence of gambling and related problems, almost no one in the criminal justice system receives treatment for gambling. Also in the criminal justice system of the USA, alot of the compulsive gamblers that end of engaging in an illegal act to support their gambling, are given stiff penalties for their crimes. Drug addicts and Alcoholics are given an option to go to treatment instead of jail or probation (depending on severity of crime committed). But the justice system does not fully acknowledge that compulsive gambling is an addiction as well. They treat them like the people who commit fraud on wall street.
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Just left a support gruop and even though i was not there for the whole hour it helped me a lot. This week i feel like i went to the casino even though i did not go. Spent over one hundred u.s.a. dollars on facebook slots. This is not good for me. I am going to get back to my basic tools. I do not want to spend another penny on gambling for the rest of my life. But i intend to do it my taking it one day at a time.
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Was asked today in a g.a. meeting, what was i going to do differently this time around. It was suggested that maybe i really never surrendered to my powerlessness over gambling. Upon thinking of my past years since i last gambled at a casino, i don’t think i ever truly stopped playing fake slots. Early on i bought c.d.’s and played them. I eventually gave all those away. Then I did also help an elderly lady scratch her instant lottery ticket. It took me a while to actually see that just the action of doing that was gambling. So now, here i am at another crossroad. I am going to read step one again and truly surrender to my powerlessness over my gambling addiction. I, truly believe when i do this i will be in a better frame of mind to really do my recovery much better this time around.
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Well done, SJ!
Those fake slots really keep gambling in the front of a CG’smind in my experience. For me it’s like putting the addiction on hold until I get a chance to get back in action. I can say the same for games on the mobile phones. Once I start playing I can’t stop. I keep saying “just one more go”! I used to play games on the phone on my way to the casino. Imagine playing games while driving! Just proved to me that there is a link.
The good news SJ, is that it is easier to stop the “fakes” because you are not chasing losses there. Keeping clear of “devices” where they are available is the best barrier. I carry two phones with me most of the time so I just had to out up a mental barrier and say “No games!”
Glad to see you posting SJ!
Your mind will be clearer without those games and your time will be your own. We are only powerless when we START playing. Postpone the next “bet” ! -
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Its a good thing you are here posting, keep coming here, come to the chat groups when you can, its good to talk about it, i find sometimes in the groups i can go with urges and after they are gone, talking to people in recovery really is a great way of turning things around. Keep going, never give up
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Ever feel liked you are doomed to fail at something? Well thinking that way about my recovery now. Maybe i was meant to gamble and control the damage it causes. I have failed everyone again. So i think i am gonna stay away from everything for a while til i can get my values straight and i am thinking right. Talk with everyone here as soon as i have that done. Hope everyone is doing better than i am.
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I know its hard. You know i do, I’ve been there so many times, and I’ve done it over and over and over and still come back and continued on. You can too. This is a rough patch, you can get through this. You need the support right now to help you through. Keep trying, each day is a new day, each day is a chance at recovery. Don’t give up. Break it down to just today again. Just for today, or just for this hour i wont gamble.
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Been doing well with not gambling. What has been most helpful has been deleting my triggers; I stay away from you tube and the only access i use for facebook is phone where the games on the side do not show up. That has really helped. I have also started back to weekly g.a. meetings. Those were lacking as well. Of course, i still attend the support groups here. I find them most helpful. I am so glad to have found this site so many years ago.
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Slotjunkie, I just wanted to reply to let you know you are not alone, when you post I can here the despair in your shares but also the hope in others (so very like me) but I suppose we are very alike as are both compulsive gamblers, keep fighting my friend and never give in, if you fall 1000 times then just keep getting up and starting from where you left off, there is no start and finish line in recovery all that ever matters is today, everyone is on a par from the person who has 20 years without a bet to the person who has 1 day all that ever matters is today because if either make the wrong choice today we all well know where that puts us.
keep fighting slot junkie and keep sharing, its always good to read peoples posts and shares, in all honesty by posting we dont really understand how many people we help!
Maverick
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I went to a g.a. meeting this morning, and it did not get anythings out of it. I think it due to the fact that the chairperson accepted a fifteen year coin even though he went back to gambling. I do realize it is not my place to say anything. I almost wished i hadn’t gone. So i am posting here as a reminder that gambling is not the answer to escape any problems i may have.
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Well my insidious disease made me do something totally stupid. Don’t know why i listen to it. Only thing it does is make me miserable and upset with myself. Was doing good then good ole “chaos” popped up and messed with me and i gambled again. It doesn’t matter the amount of money, it just matters that i gambled again. Must figure out why i like “chaos” so much. Every time i start to do good, i can’t seem to stay on the right path. I need to really work on the higher power connection. I used to have a strong connection with my higher power but somewhere along the way of life i lost that connection. Well working on not gambling just for today. Then maybe i can get stay gambling free for the 24 hours.
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There is a song by Eric Burden and The Animals. It is called The House of the Rising Sun. The lyrics talk about how his father is a gamblin man down in New Orleans. And how the son has followed in his fathers footsteps. And how he has spent his life like his father did. In sin and misery in the house of the rising sun (which i think he means any kind of gambling establishment.) And how he left for some unknown but he has one foot on the platform and the other foot on the train. And that he is going back to wear that ball and chain (which i think he is talking about being addicted to gambling).
I feel like i am at the same place in my recovery right now. I believe in my heart that if I truly had a car i would be gambling again at the casinos. Even though i have put away my tablet and installed bet-filter on my computer, i find myself gambling on my iphone. I feel like one big failure and think maybe I was born to gamble. Well that is all that i have to say. -
Gost
I’m so sorry to read that you’re feeling low and out of control now. I know the feeling all too well. Good for you that you installed betfilter on your computer. Do they not have a filter for your smartphone? I know it all costs money, but sometimes that little investment saves thousands.
A few weeks back I got back on the gambling train determined never to self exclude again. But in a few short weeks I had to do it and self exclude online. There is nowhere for me to play now.
This addiction is a hard and horrible thing to go through. The only way for us to stop is to put barriers in place. Very few of us, if any, can stop without those barriers. I know I’m stating the obvious here … I wish I had something new and magical to say that will help make you stop.
You are not a failure. Failures give up. You never have.
Keep fighting the good fight. You will stop … I’m praying for sooner than later.
Best wishes.
RG
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SJ what a great idea. Im all for lists. Im going to be making some. Its an awful time right now, starting over. Well done on your positivity, i will have to take a leaf out of your book for that one. Im back and restarting. Keep going SJ, you can do this, and i hope to see you in Charles group again some time soon though the times are mostly a bit early for me but hopefully one day.
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I have decided to come clean with everyone who reads my journal. My official last date of gambling was Thursday night. I went on fb slots and spent some money to play them this week. So I am starting over officially as of today. I will not gamble for rest of weekend just for one day at a time. Will write more about when i have more time to and feel i can handle it emotionally. thanks for listening and sorry for not telling the truth
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Hi Slotjunkie, ODAAT! We have all been there. Put barriers in place and continue getting support from here and other places to make your journey easier. The first step was your honesty, which can be hard for us CG’s. Now you can go forward. I am hoping that you have a awesome gamble free weekend!! Stay strong. Keep posting!!!!
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really having bad urges to gamble but not gonna give in to them. Posting here is one way I am dealing with them. I don’t want to spend another penny on gambling. So many thought going thru my head right now. I almost feel as bad as I did when I first stopped gambling at the casino’s in 2005. So want to be normal again if that is even possible.
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It’s interesting how these urges come and go. 2 or 3 days ago I was thinking about my favorite games allot, over the weekend started thinking about how I could get money arranged to play if I chose to, today I actually went to the website to look at the games that I could play. I didn’t play, I don’t want to lose any more money but it is so tempting. Ultimately, we may have the temptations but we are the ones who make the final decision. Long term we know we can’t win at this. One day at a time as you have said many times.
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So still no gambling since last Thursday. Been talking with gambling counselor and had group yesterday. They both helped me. I did not feel like doing anything but my desire to not gamble was stronger so went to those activities. I am more resolved than ever to not gamble again just for today. Not sure if I be at groups today but I will not gamble.
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I am glad i made it this far but my depression is still kicking my butt. Started new med and i know they take a while before i start to feel the effects of it. Just so tired of crying for no reason or just because i watch a sad show. Really been struggling at work but have no choice but to work. If i take off any more time , i am afraid I will lose my job. Was out last year for a while and also out another four days not too long ago. Well thanks for letting me vent.
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Sorry to hear you are struggling, SJ. Maybe avoid watching sad movies for now. Walking helps depression. Give the new meds time. Can you let them know at work that you need a bit of “hurdle help”. Maybe they will put you on lighter duties until things improve. One Day at a time applies to Life, SJ, not just to recovery from gambling.
You are not alone. -
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I understand where you are at.. Ive had my meds upped in their dose too. Just wait it out, this will pass. It will get better. I always try to think when i am at my bad days, this is not permanent. It is temporary and it will change. Just as the good feelings change so do the bad, just get through the best you and know that you have support here always
Pea
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better late than never they always say. I did get to my destination without stopping at casino. made the call like i was planning on. still gambling free. well on my way home tomorrow morning. I will be too early to make a call but i will make sure i am in a good frame of mind when i am driving past the area near the casino.
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Slotjunkie just wanted to pop in and say well done for staying strong, deep down we all know what happens if we place that next bet its just making sure we think before we act (something I havent been very succesful with over recent months), keep heading in the right direction and hope you have a great day in recovery, have a safe trip home.
All the very best.
Maverick
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Well 2016 is coming to an end and I think part of it has been the best I have ever been in a long time. Thanks to medicine changes and changes in my thinking and attitude. Even though I had some stressors before the holiday Everything went good, in my opinion. I got to see all of my immediate family except one. And I did get to see my nephew on Christmas day as planned. Had a wonderful time. I hope I can continue this upward turn in my recovery.
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I have been on vacation since last Tuesday. I was in groups on Thursday with Charles. He asked to post what I had planned for the weekend for fun. So Friday I went to a local mall to pay bill and look around. Later on had dinner with 2 of my sisters. Company was good but food was so so. On Saturday morning I hit a gamblers anonymous meeting. It was a great way to start the day. From there I did some shopping. So here I sit at local bookstore enjoying a glass of soda while composing this post. I plan on attending another g.a. meeting tonite. I used to attend this one every week but harder to get to these days. No better way to start and end a day. Tomorrow I plan on doing some more shopping and eating lunch out. Nice to be able to enjoy my vacation now that I have money and can afford to do things like this.
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I did end up doing some shopping on sunday. Went to my favorite place i love to shop at. It is called The christmas tree Shop. I had a good lunch out as well. Had a nice tender pork chop and baked potato. I also hit several other stores and another mall as well. So all in all my weekend went well and i really enjoyed myself. I have not done something like this in a long time. All because i no longer go to casino am i able to do this
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Fear-it looks like a very evil black mass. It has no real shape. IT has very evil eyes. It’s stench is fowl smelling. The eyes seem to speak to me saying, “I want to drain all the fearlessness out of you. They also say, “I want to make you so afraid that you will not try anything new. This is only way i could repost it
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Within the last two weeks I have had some changes in my life. Not sure what it gonna be involved in one of the changes. May mean just location of gambling program I attend or it could mean that all the long time members might be discharged out of the program totally. Which includes me. Really not sure what is going to happen. Really worried and stressed about it. Never did make that call Charles. Feel I am still too upset to call and express my feelings properly. So I have decided not to call for the time being.
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Sorry to hear you feel stressed about these proposed changes, SJ.
Sometimes proposals do no materialize.
In the meantime, talk to your fellow service users. Put in a written petition, explaining how you will be affected by the changes. Ask what plans are being made to accommodate members. Make a strong case for long term members and their entitlement to continued support.
The more signatures you can gather , the better,
There is strength in numbers.
Stand firm. -
My gambling counselor is taking care of something like that. She has asked me if I would talk to higher ups to help them understand what I get out of it. she is also asking other longer timers as well. If anything will get results that will. So I think that will have to do. Thanks for supporting me vera.
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Hi Lori, sounds like a good idea from your gambling counsellor.
I would adapt I did it’s idea, write down everything for when you go and talk to them. Reading something you have already thought about and written down will help keep those emotions in check and also make sure that you don’t forget anything you want to say on the day.
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So things have been going crazy for me these past couple of weeks. I have turned another year older, and feel like I turned 10 yrs older. Things with my gambling recovery have been very hectic. But hopefully things are finally going to settle down were I go for counseling and a couple of groups. Only took them a couple of months to finally move all the furniture in so we can finally start meeting again on Wednesday for my recovery group. I did finally meet with someone and tell them how I felt about the change and what I get out of the program(was worried they gonna cut long timers out of the program). All this craziness with my recovery is affecting my life. I think that is why I am stressing so much.
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So i made to my dad’s without a hitch. Only thought i had about gambling while driving to my dad’s was when i passed the exit for the casino that i am banned from. and that thought was gee look at all those suckers going to lose there money. Just wanted to let you know charles and anyone else who knows i was going.
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Well just wanted to update people on how i have been doing lately. I have been doing better lately with my struggles of slots on facebook. I have still been playing them but not as much and only 3.00 for a month. that is way good for me. I still am going to my gambling counselor and both of the groups. All in all this is the best I have been doing in a couple of years now
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My thanksgiving was very good this year. Actually celebrated with two big dinners. one on actual holiday and then again on Saturday my nephew had a nice dinner as well. Love spending time with my family. Hopefully my Christmas will go as well. What makes the dinner with my nephew special, is that for a long time he was not part of any family functions. Even missed a funeral because of his addiction he had. Now he is free of addiction and making me proud. Thanks for listening
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So the last couple of months have gone really well for me family wise. Saw each and everyone on them over the holidays. It was not always like this. No drama as well. That is rarity in my family. I have been struggling with my recovery these last couple of days. Not doing things I should be doing. So I did a writing on questions 15 and 20 from the twenty questions. Did both negative and positive. where I was and where I am now. I have come along way but still have a ways to go. I still go see my gambling counselor and I attend two groups run by the gambling recovery place I go to. One is geared for woman and one is for everyone. Now I must start my recovery to a deeper level. No more well this is ok but that isn’t.
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Hi SJ,
It’s so nice to see you posting again .
Family drama – I’m sure we can all identity with that one – it’s so nice when there is peace .
I get what you mean about starting recovery on a deeper level- sometimes for me it seems to be all about not gambling rather than really living.
Hope to see you in group later . Xx -
Today we did something we have never done before in my group. We honored a fellow member who had passed away last Thursday. We talked about him and how he made a difference in the group. But he is in a much better place because he was really sick we found out. The family mentioned in his obituary how he had overcome his two addictions. Drinking and gambling. And that they were glad he was making appositive change in his life at the end.
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- Morate biti prijavljeni kako bi mogli odgovoriti na ovu temu.